5:9 - Orks (Warhammer 40,000) vs. Yuuzhan Vong

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 5, ROUND 9

Orks (Warhammer 40,000)

Slot: The Team's Planetary Invasion Force!
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Orks (Warhammer 40,000) at Wikipedia
Official Site: Games Workshop PLC

Yuuzhan Vong

Slot: The Team's Planetary Invasion Force!
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Yuuzhan Vong at Wikipedia
Official Site: Lucas Films

Battle Terrain
Alien Invasion: Fleet Battle

[SSJRuss]

This match is hype and might be my favorite this round. Can you just imagine this as a battle? It would be ridiculous.

Not sure which to go for.

[Magnamax]

Though their strategy is pretty much "rush with heavily armored cruisers with tons of guns and shoot until everything is blown up," their ships are held together in a way that this is advantageous. They typically fight other races that are casual planet-busters and hold their own. They have planet-busting of their own (see below).

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hammer_Battlekroozer

An Ork spaceship was able to turn an entire planet into a billion mile asteroid field.

Big Mek Grabork and his mob of Meks salvage the space hulk Perpetual Misery from the depths of the void. Acting on instinct, Grabork and his Boyz set about pulling it apart and putting it back together into a new configuration, linking up dozens of ship reactors and cannibalizing hundreds of macro cannons to create a gargantuan shokk attack gun. Eager to try out his new weapon, the Big Mek attacks the world of Fratarn, raining petrified snotlings down upon the planet from orbit. However, when the snotlings run out, Grabork starts hurling Orks into the machine. Not liking the way things are going, one of Grabork’s Meks turns the gun into reverse, sucking the entire world up into the Perpetual Misery. The resulting explosion obliterates the hulk and planet, and creates an asteroid field a billion miles across.^[4]

[Magnamax]

Sorry, reposting what I've said about the Ork fleet before. We're talking trillions to quadrillions of Orks riding on ships made of Big Gunz going and just blowing stuff up around. I think they've got more firepower.

[SSJRuss]

2 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

Sorry, reposting what I've said about the Ork fleet before. We're talking trillions to quadrillions of Orks riding on ships made of Big Gunz going and just blowing stuff up around. I think they've got more firepower.

As a counter, I think there might be as many Yuuzhan Vong (They conquered an entire galaxy and held it) as there are Orks. If not it could be close. And the Yuuzhan Vong have living weaponry that could take control of the Orks or take some of their ships.

[Magnamax]

Just now, SSJRuss said:

As a counter, I think there might be as many Yuuzhan Vong (They conquered an entire galaxy and held it) as there are Orks. If not it could be close. And the Yuuzhan Vong have living weaponry that could take control of the Orks or take some of their ships.

Are there literally quadrillions of Yuuzhan Vong? Here's what I have found about the Vong Fleet: 

"After the First Battle of Obroa-skai, the New Republic Defense Force estimated the Yuuzhan Vong naval strength to be at one thousand capital ships, deployed in small groups of twenty-five to seventy-vessels each consisting of analogs to warships, cruisers, destroyers, troop carriers, frigates, corvettes and gunships, along with starfighters known as coralskippers."

 

If that's the case, then they are getting crushed, the Orks will just have waaaaaaay too many ships and firepower for anything to matter.

[C.T.]

15 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

Are there literally quadrillions of Yuuzhan Vong? Here's what I have found about the Vong Fleet: 

"After the First Battle of Obroa-skai, the New Republic Defense Force estimated the Yuuzhan Vong naval strength to be at one thousand capital ships, deployed in small groups of twenty-five to seventy-vessels each consisting of analogs to warships, cruisers, destroyers, troop carriers, frigates, corvettes and gunships, along with starfighters known as coralskippers."

 

If that's the case, then they are getting crushed, the Orks will just have waaaaaaay too many ships and firepower for anything to matter.

I would say there's around that many, yeah. The star wars galaxy is a really big place and they nearly conquered the whole thing(even held on to Coruscant for years) and killed upwards of 300 trillion humans and aliens. Plus as mentioned their organic tech fleets, with hivemind capabilities to influence said ships and technology and stuff like this: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Yammosk

And that's really just an estimate, from the New Republic even which just throws it further into the not really solid evidence given that the New Republic really didn't see them as a threat and it was their misjudgment on the Vong that gave the Yuuzhan an advantage to push in and conquer their freaking capital planet. 

[Magnamax]

2 minutes ago, C.T. said:

I would say there's around that many, yeah. The star wars galaxy is a really big place and they nearly conquered the whole thing(even held on to Coruscant for years) and killed upwards of 300 trillion humans and aliens. Plus as mentioned their organic tech fleets, with hivemind capabilities to influence said ships and technology and stuff like this: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Yammosk

And that's really just an estimate, from the New Republic even which just throws it further into the not really solid evidence given that the New Republic really didn't see them as a threat and it was their misjudgment on the Vong that gave the Yuuzhan an advantage to push in and conquer their freaking capital planet. 

The Orks utilize psychic Weirdboyz as well, along with their leaders to create the WAUGH! field that keeps their ships together. Given the number of these guys they usually keep around, I think it's more likely the Orks are going to be disruptive of the Vong than the other way around. 

You can say that's "just an estimate" but unless they are millions off, they are going to be severely outnumbered. I'm thinking that even if this is off, the Vong are still in the thousands. I don't really see any evidence that the Vong are numbering in the quadrillions.

The Orks are literally packing 5 million plus ships that are just guns in a single warlord's clan. They can put anything they find together with some engines and it just works due to the WAUGH field they put around themselves. This includes space hulks, which can just wipe out planets, and "attack moons" which are just moons/planets that have been repurposed to be Ork ships: "Once the Attack Moon arrived in-system, usually impossibly close to its target, the moon would disgorge an endless stream of Ork warships to protect itself and Assault Craft to begin planetary invasion"

 

 

[C.T.]

1 minute ago, Magnamax said:

You can say that's "just an estimate" but unless they are millions off, they are going to be severely outnumbered. I'm thinking that even if this is off, the Vong are still in the thousands. I don't really see any evidence that the Vong are numbering in the quadrillions.

It took a united galaxy that numbers nearly 100 quadrillion(Endnotes for Star Wars: The Essential Atlas (part 1 of 5) | Daniel Wallace's Geekosity) almost five years to fight them off. How is that not evidence enough? The New Republic, the Imperial remnants, the Mandalorians, the Jedi, the Hutt Cartel, the Chiss Ascendancy, the Galactic Alliance, the Ssi-ruuvi and many more...

[C.T.]

7 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

This includes space hulks, which can just wipe out planets

The Yuuzhan have the ability to wipe out planets too, using Dovin basal | Wookieepedia | Fandom  and use them to bring down moons or other planets onto planets and wipe out both in one devastating impact.

[Magnamax]

1 hour ago, C.T. said:

It took a united galaxy that numbers nearly 100 quadrillion(Endnotes for Star Wars: The Essential Atlas (part 1 of 5) | Daniel Wallace's Geekosity) almost five years to fight them off. How is that not evidence enough? The New Republic, the Imperial remnants, the Mandalorians, the Jedi, the Hutt Cartel, the Chiss Ascendancy, the Galactic Alliance, the Ssi-ruuvi and many more...

That's not enough because the link you posted states that "at its peak, nearly 100 quadrillion gave their allegiance to the Republic," which (unless I'm mistaken) the Republic was not at its peak when fighting the Yuuzhan, and it does nothing to establish the Naval fleet that the Yuushan possess. The quote I found states thousands, which is a far cry from the number the Orks would have.

I still think evidence points to Orks having a larger fleet, ground battle could be different.

1 hour ago, C.T. said:

The Yuuzhan have the ability to wipe out planets too, using Dovin basal | Wookieepedia | Fandom  and use them to bring down moons or other planets onto planets and wipe out both in one devastating impact.

Not the same thing. This involves a Dovin Basal smashing into a planet, killing them both. The orks are using ships equipped with enough firepower to turn planets into asteroid fields. WAy more efficient and useful in a straight-up fleet battle. 

 

Again, Orks have numbers, firepower, psychic abilities and experience in their favor. They fight demons, and technological beings that are above the Star Wars level on a daily basis. 

[C.T.]

34 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

That's not enough because the link you posted states that "at its peak, nearly 100 quadrillion gave their allegiance to the Republic," which (unless I'm mistaken) the Republic was not at its peak when fighting the Yuuzhan, and it does nothing to establish the Naval fleet that the Yuushan possess. The quote I found states thousands, which is a far cry from the number the Orks would have.

Again the quote you use is an estimate and one that is very well leaning towards a very inaccurate one, given the source and how wrong they were about the Yuuzhan. 

34 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

Again, Orks have numbers,

Not really proven on your part, no. Sorry.

34 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

firepower

Probably.

34 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

psychic abilities

Yuuzhan have that too, in spades, as far as their bio-tech goes.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

For my money, the biggest disparity right now is the firepower. The numbers are complicated and seem like they could go either way, and the miscellaneous powers of each side are really hard to judge against one another, but the Orks seems to have a definitive advantage in fire power, and CT's one example of comparable power seems very dubious at best

[SSJRuss]

22 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

For my money, the biggest disparity right now is the firepower. The numbers are complicated and seem like they could go either way, and the miscellaneous powers of each side are really hard to judge against one another, but the Orks seems to have a definitive advantage in fire power, and CT's one example of comparable power seems very dubious at best

I agree on this point. The Orks have better firepower.

[Magnamax]

1 hour ago, C.T. said:

Again the quote you use is an estimate and one that is very well leaning towards a very inaccurate one, given the source and how wrong they were about the Yuuzhan. 

Not really proven on your part, no. Sorry.

Probably.

Yuuzhan have that too, in spades, as far as their bio-tech goes.

 

Even if the quote is inaccurate, it’s not inaccurate in the millions. 
 

The Ork’s numbers are well-established, their numbers and warfare get to the point where they are running over star systems without a problem. They need entire planets just to hold a part of their army. It gets to the point where the army is occupying a star system just to move to the next battle. I balancing entire world just to produce ammo. They have numbers, altogether.

 

the firepower is a huge thing, given they seem to have numbers. They have more power and can transport in an endless stream of ships. 

[DSkillz]

Haven't decided on who to vote for on this yet, and this won't really be relevant to anyone voting on this, but ...

14 hours ago, Magnamax said:

We're talking trillions to quadrillions of Orks

I've been seeing this mentioned regarding the Orks and WH in general, and the question that keeps popping in my head is: how does a population of trillions to quadrillions have the resources to sustain itself (i.e. food, drink, etc.)? Good Lord.

[Peypeypeypey]

8 hours ago, DSkillz said:

Haven't decided on who to vote for on this yet, and this won't really be relevant to anyone voting on this, but ...

I've been seeing this mentioned regarding the Orks and WH in general, and the question that keeps popping in my head is: how does a population of trillions to quadrillions have the resources to sustain itself (i.e. food, drink, etc.)? Good Lord.

Well first, trillions isn't strange at all. If we found a way to terraform even a fraction of the planets that are habitable, we would be completely set. We have billions on here, and there are 40 billion habitable planets in the Milky Way alone. If we could terraform even .1% of those, that's 4 million habitable planets. Even if each of those could only hold a million people (which is an incredibly low estimate), that's way more than a trillion in terms of population.

Second, this is a race of sentient plant-goblin people who can cobble together literally anything with an engine and make it into an overwhelming force of destruction regardless of whether it follows any law of reality, and the number is your main hang-up?

[DSkillz]

2 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Second, this is a race of sentient plant-goblin people who can cobble together literally anything with an engine and make it into an overwhelming force of destruction regardless of whether it follows any law of reality, and the number is your main hang-up?

It's not really a hang-up regarding my vote. Note that I did say:

11 hours ago, DSkillz said:

Haven't decided on who to vote for on this yet, and this won't really be relevant to anyone voting on this, but ...

I was just curious.

[Peypeypeypey]

29 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

It's not really a hang-up regarding my vote. Note that I did say:

I was just curious.

I get that. I didn't say it was your hang up about voting. I just think the numbers are probably the most realistic part of the Orks

[SSJRuss]

I think another thing to point out here is that Vong are masters of organic life and bio-engineering. They have methods to adapt and change living armor/weapons to their liking and I think this gives them an advantage against the Orks, who are plant-based lifeforms. I'm just not entirely sure how yet.

[Peypeypeypey]

14 minutes ago, SSJRuss said:

I think another thing to point out here is that Vong are masters of organic life and bio-engineering. They have methods to adapt and change living armor/weapons to their liking and I think this gives them an advantage against the Orks, who are plant-based lifeforms. I'm just not entirely sure how yet.

It's a fleet battle though. I think the prompt is like "who would win if their fleets were to engage each other in an expansive space battle," and that severely limits the time the Vong would even have to develop anything at all, even if we grant that they could. The Orks firepower and number of ships would be enough to overwhelm the Vong here

[Bergy_Berg]

This thread is a good lesson for designing future character slots. I don't think it's as interesting to debate based on trillions of possible combatants, it would be much better to just assume equal numbers.

[SSJRuss]

1 minute ago, Peypeypeypey said:

It's a fleet battle though. I think the prompt is like "who would win if their fleets were to engage each other in an expansive space battle," and that severely limits the time the Vong would even have to develop anything at all, even if we grant that they could. The Orks firepower and number of ships would be enough to overwhelm the Vong here

I don't disagree, just thought it was interesting to point out. The Vong ships are living things too so that could still be relevant. Though, Orks may adapt faster and making living weapons of their own to counter the Vong. It would be fun to see unfold.

[SSJRuss]

1 minute ago, Bergy_Berg said:

This thread is a good lesson for designing future character slots. I don't think it's as interesting to debate based on trillions of possible combatants, it would be much better to just assume equal numbers.

Oh that's a good point. If we assume they have a fleet of equal size, then this match goes to the Vong.

[Peypeypeypey]

1 minute ago, Bergy_Berg said:

This thread is a good lesson for designing future character slots. I don't think it's as interesting to debate based on trillions of possible combatants, it would be much better to just assume equal numbers.

The problem with that is that some teams are designed to rush with overwhelming numbers, especially in fights like this. A lot of alien invaders are designed to take over by sheer numbers, and it would be a massive (and sort of unfair) nerf to arbitrarily limit some. It would encourage picking the strongest individual fighters rather than the strongest invading force, which is what the category was