7:4 - Amazo vs. Iron Man

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 7, ROUND 4

Amazo

Slot: The Team Anchor
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Amazo at Wikipedia
Official Site: DC Comics

Iron Man

Slot: The Team Anchor
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Iron Man at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Asgard

[Boratz]

I think Amazo would win unless Tony can find a way to use his intellect and outsmart him. Amazo's power is just on way to much of another level

[Fox]

9 minutes ago, Boratz said:

I think Amazo would win unless Tony can find a way to use his intellect and outsmart him. Amazo's power is just on way to much of another level

To be fair, they are both listed as Tier 5.  Amazo.  Iron Man.  So they aren't that far apart.

These characters have different versions so, we are looking at the versions that are in the same ballpark together.

[Mercenaryblade]

This being one round I got to go with Amazo unexpectedly powerful villains usually win the first rounds, forcing the hero to retreat and try a new strategy. This being a one time fight, I say Amazo

[The Boob Tube]

Doesn't Amazo normally copy superheroes powers? And since technically Iron Man doesn't have any super powers whatsoever, other than his suits, I'd say the fight goes to Tony. Unless Amazo has a way of copying his suits, which I doubt he does not

[C.T.]

Well...still gotta go with Amazo here. Don't think many in this slot actually match up great against him...maybe Silver Surfer...

[Fox]

5 minutes ago, The Boob Tube said:

Doesn't Amazo normally copy superheroes powers? And since technically Iron Man doesn't have any super powers whatsoever, other than his suits, I'd say the fight goes to Tony. Unless Amazo has a way of copying his suits, which I doubt he does not

I was wondering about this myself.

Tony is just a normal human with an advanced non-power weapon system based completely in technology.

I don't think Amazo has anything here.

Quote:
"Amazo's cells to mimic the physical structure and energy output of organic beings he encounters"

If that's the way it is then Amazo should get zero votes in this match, realistically. 

[Movie-Brat]

I recall Amazo detecting Batman having no powers to copy. By all accounts, Iron Man should take this.

[Peypeypeypey]

Amazo has a base power-set, though. Taking that away from him would be akin to taking away Tony's suit

[Fox]

Just now, Peypeypeypey said:

Amazo has a base power-set, though. Taking that away from him would be akin to taking away Tony's suit

Examples of this "Base Power Set" in the DCAU version, please.  Facts or it didn't happen.

[C.T.]

17 minutes ago, The Boob Tube said:

Doesn't Amazo normally copy superheroes powers? And since technically Iron Man doesn't have any super powers whatsoever, other than his suits, I'd say the fight goes to Tony. Unless Amazo has a way of copying his suits, which I doubt he does not

 

6 minutes ago, Fox said:

I was wondering about this myself.

Tony is just a normal human with an advanced non-power weapon system based completely in technology.

I don't think Amazo has anything here.

Quote:
"Amazo's cells to mimic the physical structure and energy output of organic beings he encounters"

If that's the way it is then Amazo should get zero votes in this match, realistically. 

 

5 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

I recall Amazo detecting Batman having no powers to copy. By all accounts, Iron Man should take this.

Not reeeeeeally. The problem here is Amazo doesn't really need to copy Iron Man when he's already absurdly powerful? Like he blinked and that was enough to send a planet into another dimension kind of powerful? The kind of powerful where the writers had to write him out of the series otherwise he would have made the entire Justice League pointless...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFz82wrrjEM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRIVIpo8b1Q

 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

1 minute ago, Fox said:

Examples of this "Base Power Set" in the DCAU version, please.  Facts or it didn't happen.

Well, any feat he uses is his base power set. He doesn't lose the ability to use powers he's copied at any point, so he just has them as his base. He wouldn't be able to copy more from Iron Man, but he doesn't really need to because he's so powerful. He took on the entire DCAU Justice League and Lantern Corp and won effortlessly

[Fox]

Just now, Peypeypeypey said:

Well, any feat he uses is his base power set. He doesn't lose the ability to use powers he's copied at any point, so he just has them as his base. He wouldn't be able to copy more from Iron Man, but he doesn't really need to because he's so powerful. He took on the entire DCAU Justice League and Lantern Corp and won effortlessly

OK, no.

There is no reason we need to accept that in this Fantasy Draft that this Amazo has met anyone and has any powers.

I'll give you this: Amazo has met Vash the Stampede in this Fantasy Draft.  There's your base powers - whatever he could have gotten out of Vash.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

Just now, Fox said:

OK, no.

There is no reason we need to accept that in this Fantasy Draft that this Amazo has met anyone and has any powers.

I'll give you this: Amazo has met Vash the Stampede in this Fantasy Draft.  There's your base powers - whatever he could have gotten out of Vash.

 

Why would that be the case at all? He has met these characters in his story and he has those feats. If a character has training, do they not get that because it happened over the course of their story? This is tantamount to saying "You can use Tony Stark, but it's before he gets his Iron Man suit." And why is this line being drawn now? Vash could probably have won if this rule was in place in the first round

[C.T.]

8 minutes ago, Fox said:

OK, no.

There is no reason we need to accept that in this Fantasy Draft that this Amazo has met anyone and has any powers.

I'll give you this: Amazo has met Vash the Stampede in this Fantasy Draft.  There's your base powers - whatever he could have gotten out of Vash.

 

We kind of do, though. One, the picture of the Amazo used here is the golden Amazo featured in the JLU episode return, where he was that absurdly powerful and beating down the JLU and GLC by himself with ease, so I'm assuming that's the one meant to be used. And two, if he's not coming in with the power he already possesses there, then he's not in Tier 5. He'd be in the Tier of Nothing because he would have nothing. But he's in Tier 5, so...

[DSkillz]

People are really underestimating DCAU's Amazo here. He's likely at or very near the top of Tier 5.

[Bergy_Berg]

If we exclude Amazo's powers that were learned in the DCAU then it's suddenly a basic human level character. Which is fine by me, because I can't believe it's listed at tier 5, but then that's pretty unfair to the person who drafted the android.

If we accept everything from the DCAU it's probably too powerful for this character slot, despite the vswiki listing the character at tier 5.

[Fox]

2 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Why would that be the case at all? He has met these characters in his story and he has those feats. If a character has training, do they not get that because it happened over the course of their story? This is tantamount to saying "You can use Tony Stark, but it's before he gets his Iron Man suit." And why is this line being drawn now? Vash could probably have won if this rule was in place in the first round

Because, as you have said in arguing a defense of the Amazo character...

12 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

but he doesn't really need to because he's so powerful. He took on the entire DCAU Justice League and Lantern Corp and won effortlessly

which is obviously out of tier here.  Right?

I believe you are waaay overboard on where Amazo should be here, tier wise.  So I'm arguing for a downgrade.

Anyways, I'm going with Tony on this one. 

[Bergy_Berg]

Anyway. even in the show Amazo is shown to need a moment to understand and utilize someone else's powers, and he never goes up against anything as powerful as the tier 5 characters in this draft.

As Jon Stewart says in the episode, the power of the Green Lanterns could destroy HALF a planet, so even all together they lack planet destroying power. Amazo is vulnerable to being one-shotted by a strong contender, and I believe there are a couple characters in this draft who could pull that off. So that begs the question: Can Iron Man one shot Amazo?

[Peypeypeypey]

Just now, Bergy_Berg said:

If we accept everything from the DCAU it's probably too powerful for this character slot, despite the vswiki listing the character at tier 5.

Eh, I'm actually not so sure about that. I think the fact that the DCAU uses characters like Superman, Green Lantern, Etc., and Amazo beats them leads people to assume that Amazo must be a supremely powerful being, DCAU Superman cannot possibly be more than an island-level, maybe moon-level being, and he's the absolute strongest being in the DCAU Justice League. Comic characters would walk all over their DCAU counterparts.

2 minutes ago, Fox said:

Because, as you have said in arguing a defense of the Amazo character...

which is obviously out of tier here.  Right?

I believe you are waaay overboard on where Amazo should be here, tier wise.  So I'm arguing for a downgrade.

Anyways, I'm going with Tony on this one. 

I think the biggest problem with AMAZO is that he's much more powerful than DCAU's top tiers, and no-sells and BFR's everyone in his path, but the exact extent of his powers aren't known. For example, Iron Man definitely has more power output than DCAU Superman, arguably than the whole DCAU Justice League, but he has no defense against AMAZO just BFR-ing him, which isn't a power he even seemed to copy from anyone (I can't remember anyone in the DCAU who can teleport planets away, at least. It seems to just be a power of his). 

I wasn't definitely saying Iron Man couldn't win, just that AMAZO wouldn't necessarily need to copy powers to beat him

[Fox]

11 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Eh, I'm actually not so sure about that. I think the fact that the DCAU uses characters like Superman, Green Lantern, Etc., and Amazo beats them leads people to assume that Amazo must be a supremely powerful being, DCAU Superman cannot possibly be more than an island-level, maybe moon-level being, and he's the absolute strongest being in the DCAU Justice League. Comic characters would walk all over their DCAU counterparts.

 

OK so now we come to the understanding that the DCAU characters are very watered down versions of their Comic counterparts.

That means Amazo is holding onto a bunch of watered down powers which puts him at Tier 5.  So it's time to stop pretending that taking on the Justice League & Green Lantern Corps means anything, because all it means is he's got a basket-full of watered down DCAU powers that gets him into Tier 5.

That seems reasonable.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

16 minutes ago, Fox said:

OK so now we come to the understanding that the DCAU characters are very watered down versions of their Comic counterparts.

That means Amazo is holding onto a bunch of watered down powers which puts him at Tier 5.  So it's time to stop pretending that taking on the Justice League & Green Lantern Corps means anything, because all it means is he's got a basket-full of watered down DCAU powers that gets him into Tier 5.

That seems reasonable.

 

Yeah, his powers the he's copied aren't all that great individually, it's just with all of them he becomes a powerhouse. I push back on the idea that him taking out the Justice League and Green Lantern Corps doesn't mean anything though. It shows he can no-sell planet-level attacks, as the collective attack of the Corps was said to be able to wipe out half a planet, and it demonstrates his propensity to remove his opponents from the battlefield, an alternative win condition in many fights. However it is good to clarify that his physicals are probably not all that impressive, and his specific individual copied powers aren't that strong

[Macklemore]

With that being said, the REASON for him being planet level is the fact that he warped Oa out of his way right? But like, he never really broke it apart or anything? I see he's implied to be able to destroy the planet, so can anyone find me the actual time this was implied? I wanna read into it as much as I can before I make the wrong or right choice. Cause if he gets teleported away, Iron Man can make it back to the fight fast. He's got the capability.

[Magnamax]

Given that Amazo went from “too powerful for the slot” to “powerful as a normal man” to “could he be one-shot by Iron Man?” to “watered down justice league” I’m not really sure how to vote...

[DSkillz]

4 hours ago, Magnamax said:

Given that Amazo went from “too powerful for the slot” to “powerful as a normal man” to “could he be one-shot by Iron Man?” to “watered down justice league” I’m not really sure how to vote...

The thing about tiers on the VS Battles Wiki is that it appears a character only has to potentially fulfill the requirements in one aspect to qualify for a specific tier, at least that's how it appears to me. I think Amazo is correctly in Tier 5, but it's just that he potentially fulfills the tier's requirements in so many ways.