7:8 - Omega Supreme vs. Gamera

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 7, ROUND 8

Omega Supreme

Slot: Team's Japanese Asset
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Omega Supreme at Wikipedia
Official Site: Hasbro

Gamera

Slot: Team's Japanese Asset
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Gamera at Wikipedia
Official Site: Kadokawa

Battle Terrain
Location: Los Angeles

[Culwych1]

Height: Gamera is 60-80 meters vs Omega Supreme's 128 meters (in smaller iterations) to 804 meters (in larger interations) - so Omega is huge compared to Gamera. 

Flight: Both can fly, Gamera Mach 3, Omega TBC but he is capable of interstellar travel so I make that faster than Mach 3)

Armor: I reckon comparable, although Gamera's weakness here is his stomach

Firepower: Comparable 

Experience: Omega has been fighting for millions of years versus Gemera's thousands. 

Given the size difference, strength of armor and endurance, Omega will eventually wear Gamera down and obliterate him. 

 

[Macklemore]

56 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Flight: Both can fly, Gamera Mach 3, Omega TBC but he is capable of interstellar travel so I make that faster than Mach 3)

 

Gamera should be at least FTL as he flies to a different planet if I recall correctly in Gamera vs. Guiron. Just a minor nitpick, otherwise you should be right.on the winner.

[Culwych1]

5 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Gamera should be at least FTL as he flies to a different planet if I recall correctly in Gamera vs. Guiron. Just a minor nitpick, otherwise you should be right.on the winner.

Well spotted. Equal speed in that case as both have interplanetary travel. 

[SSJRuss]

Hmmm, while I think Gamera will have a hard time taking OS down, I don't know if OS can put Gamera down for good either. We could see a tie.

[Pizzaguy2995]

Here’s my two cents: When I looked up Omega Supreme multiple sites said that his armor was impervious to all non-nuclear explosives. I also read that Ratchet explicitly said that a nuclear bomb could dent Omega’s armor. In the second film in the Gamera trilogy, Gamera not only survived a nuclear explosion that leveled the ENTIRE city of Sendai, but in the next movie he was said to be even stronger then before. Doesn’t that give Gamera a huge durability advantage?

[Culwych1]

34 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Here’s my two cents: When I looked up Omega Supreme multiple sites said that his armor was impervious to all non-nuclear explosives. I also read that Ratchet explicitly said that a nuclear bomb could dent Omega’s armor. In the second film in the Gamera trilogy, Gamera not only survived a nuclear explosion that leveled the ENTIRE city of Sendai, but in the next movie he was said to be even stronger then before. Doesn’t that give Gamera a huge durability advantage?

I've always seen Gamera's resitance to nuclear similar to Godzilla's - they were originally mutated by it so giving them a natural resistance to it. Hence why they have resistance to nuclear bombs but can at the same time be made to bleed by another creature's bite or claw. 

I've classed them as similar in terms of durability - but Gamera is stated to have a very specific weakness when it comes to his stomach. It is not a stretch to see these fighters get in close, and give the massive size difference (we could be talking 10 times as big) for Omega just to manhandle Gamera over and then attack that weakness (it is easy to forget that he is a elite warrior who has been fighting for eons so will spot the weakness). 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

18 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

I've always seen Gamera's resitance to nuclear similar to Godzilla's - they were originally mutated by it so giving them a natural resistance to it. Hence why they have resistance to nuclear bombs but can at the same time be made to bleed by another creature's bite or claw. 

I've classed them as similar in terms of durability - but Gamera is stated to have a very specific weakness when it comes to his stomach. It is not a stretch to see these fighters get in close, and give the massive size difference (we could be talking 10 times as big) for Omega just to manhandle Gamera over and then attack that weakness (it is easy to forget that he is a elite warrior who has been fighting for eons so will spot the weakness). 

 

It's actually not a nuclear bomb. It's an explosive flower. So it is definitely a straight-durability feat that he tanked it when it wiped a city off the face of the planet. The stomach weakness is also something of a red herring. It's a weakness turtles have, and he has it in his weaker, earlier incarnations, but in his most powerful incarnations, it's not much of an exploitable weakness as far as I remember. His underbelly is a weak spot, but it still has Kaiju-level durability and it would be very hard to score a killing blow even from his front

Also, this is obviously too powerful for this category, but there's a version of Gamera that's apparently a multi-solar system level threat. 

[Culwych1]

44 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

It's actually not a nuclear bomb. It's an explosive flower. So it is definitely a straight-durability feat that he tanked it when it wiped a city off the face of the planet. The stomach weakness is also something of a red herring. It's a weakness turtles have, and he has it in his weaker, earlier incarnations, but in his most powerful incarnations, it's not much of an exploitable weakness as far as I remember. His underbelly is a weak spot, but it still has Kaiju-level durability and it would be very hard to score a killing blow even from his front

Also, this is obviously too powerful for this category, but there's a version of Gamera that's apparently a multi-solar system level threat. 

Had no idea there was such a powerful Gamera (comparable to creatures creating their own pocket dimensions!). Insane, but not sure as you say that would be relevant here as that's comparable to Unicron level feats.

In all iterations there is still the strength element; in most of what I've seen of Gamera he still likes going up close and personal. I cannot see how he could win if he does that against someone who is 10 times his size, much stronger, and who could put him on his back.

Kaiju level durability can still be made to bleed.

And at the end of the day, another key factor is endurance. This is not going to be a quick fight, and Gamera will get tired whereas Omega just doesn't. He has been going for millions of years and newer versions just keep going.

Eventually the size, strength and endurance is going to make a difference even if firepower and durability are comparable. 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

2 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

Had no idea there was such a powerful Gamera (comparable to creatures creating their own pocket dimensions!). Insane, but not sure as you say that would be relevant here as that's comparable to Unicron level feats.

In all iterations there is still the strength element; in most of what I've seen of Gamera he still likes going up close and personal. I cannot see how he could win if he does that against someone who is 10 times his size, much stronger, and who could put him on his back.

Kaiju level durability can still be made to bleed.

And at the end of the day, another key factor is endurance. This is not going to be a quick fight, and Gamera will get tired whereas Omega just doesn't. He has been going for millions of years and newer versions just keep going.

Eventually the size, strength and endurance is going to make a difference even if firepower and durability are comparable. 

 

Wasn't making a judgment on the fight. It does seem to be in Omega's favor, just felt like I should correct some misunderstandings about the Turtle

[Culwych1]

1 hour ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Wasn't making a judgment on the fight. It does seem to be in Omega's favor, just felt like I should correct some misunderstandings about the Turtle

Cool! It's definitely made me want to watch/rewatch more on both characters 

[Pizzaguy2995]

7 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

Had no idea there was such a powerful Gamera (comparable to creatures creating their own pocket dimensions!). Insane, but not sure as you say that would be relevant here as that's comparable to Unicron level feats.

In all iterations there is still the strength element; in most of what I've seen of Gamera he still likes going up close and personal. I cannot see how he could win if he does that against someone who is 10 times his size, much stronger, and who could put him on his back.

Kaiju level durability can still be made to bleed.

And at the end of the day, another key factor is endurance. This is not going to be a quick fight, and Gamera will get tired whereas Omega just doesn't. He has been going for millions of years and newer versions just keep going.

Eventually the size, strength and endurance is going to make a difference even if firepower and durability are comparable. 

 

And how exactly are firepower and durability comparable? When exactly has Omega Supreme survived anything close to what Gamera’s explosive flower feat? According to all sources I’ve read he’s only impervious to non-nuclear explosives, which to me means he can be damaged and hurt by explosions of that magnitude. More importantly, he’s never shown the ability to produce that type of firepower against his opponents either. Gamera has shown over and over again that his most powerful attacks and blasts can cause that level of damage and that he can tank said damages. The question shouldn’t be who will get tired first, it’s who can damage the other first; Omega just doesn’t have the offensive ability to produce serious damage to Gamera, but Gamera can and will hit Omega with damage that according to canon will seriously hurt Omega. That’s why I’m favoring Gamera.

[Culwych1]

1 hour ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

And how exactly are firepower and durability comparable? When exactly has Omega Supreme survived anything close to what Gamera’s explosive flower feat? According to all sources I’ve read he’s only impervious to non-nuclear explosives, which to me means he can be damaged and hurt by explosions of that magnitude. More importantly, he’s never shown the ability to produce that type of firepower against his opponents either. Gamera has shown over and over again that his most powerful attacks and blasts can cause that level of damage and that he can tank said damages. The question shouldn’t be who will get tired first, it’s who can damage the other first; Omega just doesn’t have the offensive ability to produce serious damage to Gamera, but Gamera can and will hit Omega with damage that according to canon will seriously hurt Omega. That’s why I’m favoring Gamera.

Firepower, in this case going by the attack potency (amount of damage a character can produce) on VS Battles Wiki lists Gamera as at least Large Island Level for Heisei and Showa, against at least Multi-Continent level for Omega Supreme. 

This is the transformer that is brought in as the last line of defence for the entire planet, on a planet where firepower is city level (Megatron's canon is refered to as being able to level a city and it doesn't even phase Omega). 

In terms of durability, Gamera has been impaled before, as well as been hurt by beams (here and here). 

 

[Pizzaguy2995]

11 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

Firepower, in this case going by the attack potency (amount of damage a character can produce) on VS Battles Wiki lists Gamera as at least Large Island Level for Heisei and Showa, against at least Multi-Continent level for Omega Supreme. 

This is the transformer that is brought in as the last line of defence for the entire planet, on a planet where firepower is city level (Megatron's canon is refered to as being able to level a city and it doesn't even phase Omega). 

In terms of durability, Gamera has been impaled before, as well as been hurt by beams (here and here). 

 

I have read the VS Battles wiki on Omega Supreme and actually the page listed his attack potency as Varies. The only reason he might be considered multi-continent level is because he was able to blast a hole in Devastator, another supposed multi-continental buster. VS wiki also listed near the bottom of Omega’s page that IDW Transformers comics are notoriously inconsistent with the power levels of their characters and that both Omega and Devastator have had their strengths fluctuate between City-level and Multi-continent level so often it’s difficult to for the wiki to say with certainty what level they belong at. Their is no such questions with Gamera, he is a consistent Tier 6 Large Island busting character and he has shown that power level throughout his Heisei and Showa run. Yes Omega Supreme is considered one of the most powerful characters in the Transformers universe, but remember that the average Transformer is at best a city level threat, meanwhile the average Kaiju is considered a national, if not a world wide threat and Gamera is unquestionably one the most powerful Kaijus, at least comparable to the likes of Godzilla.

 

Yes I’m aware that Gamera has been impaled before, why? Wonder Woman is also vulnerable to stabbing weapons, does that take away the fact that she has withstood blows from Superman in the past? Also Omega doesn’t have any stabbing weapons so how will he take advantage of that weakness?

 

 

[Culwych1]

2 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

I have read the VS Battles wiki on Omega Supreme and actually the page listed his attack potency as Varies. The only reason he might be considered multi-continent level is because he was able to blast a hole in Devastator, another supposed multi-continental buster. VS wiki also listed near the bottom of Omega’s page that IDW Transformers comics are notoriously inconsistent with the power levels of their characters and that both Omega and Devastator have had their strengths fluctuate between City-level and Multi-continent level so often it’s difficult to for the wiki to say with certainty what level they belong at. Their is no such questions with Gamera, he is a consistent Tier 6 Large Island busting character and he has shown that power level throughout his Heisei and Showa run. Yes Omega Supreme is considered one of the most powerful characters in the Transformers universe, but remember that the average Transformer is at best a city level threat, meanwhile the average Kaiju is considered a national, if not a world wide threat and Gamera is unquestionably one the most powerful Kaijus, at least comparable to the likes of Godzilla.

 

Yes I’m aware that Gamera has been impaled before, why? Wonder Woman is also vulnerable to stabbing weapons, does that take away the fact that she has withstood blows from Superman in the past? Also Omega doesn’t have any stabbing weapons so how will he take advantage of that weakness?

 

 

 

A lot of characters vary in abilities. 

It was just a general comment about his durability, but noting also that beams have hurt Gamera (the videos seem to suggest his shell was cracked by one). There is nothing to suggest that Omega's blasts (such as the one seen here 00:47 to 00:55) wouldn't damage him as well (also noting that logically Omega did not go all out here as he is a protector of Cybertron so would not be looking to damage it). Omega is also stated to have atomic lasers (amongst others), which I reckon could allow him to stab. 

Now I'm a huge fan of Gamera (although haven't watched anything to do with him in absolutely ages) and am certainly not underselling his power - but at the same time we are talking about a transformer up to 10 times his size. Gamera is estimated to weigh between 10,000 and 25,000 tons - and with one claw Omega is stated to be able to lift between 300,000 tons in the smaller versions to a lot more. 

 

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Omega Supreme: 4
Gamera: 6