8:1 - Mystique vs. The Punisher

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 8, ROUND 1

Mystique

Slot: Vs. Battle Wiki Tier: Superhuman (Lowest Power)
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Mystique at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Entertainment

The Punisher

Slot: Vs. Battle Wiki Tier: Superhuman (Lowest Power)
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about The Punisher at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Shaolin Temple

[Mercenaryblade]

I think Mystique would shapeshift into a monk and backstab Frank

[Peypeypeypey]

1 hour ago, Mercenaryblade said:

I think Mystique would shapeshift into a monk and backstab Frank

I don't think Frank would let anyone get close enough to backstab him. My memory of Punisher is that he's pretty paranoid. These two are physically very similar, except for the whole mutant power situation, but Punisher would have vastly superior range and is arguably a bit faster. Still, I think Mystique does have a reliable way to get in close with her powers. This is where my lack of Marvel knowledge works against me a bit. My impression was that Punisher is probably a better h2h fighter, although I think Mystique has a slight heal factor. I did a bit of research on this, but it seems inconclusive. In any case, I give Punisher the advantage for being slightly faster, having a bigger standard loadout, which gives him a lot more range, and being at least competitive with her if she does manage to bring it to h2h

[Mercenaryblade]

1 minute ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I don't think Frank would let anyone get close enough to backstab him. My memory of Punisher is that he's pretty paranoid. These two are physically very similar, except for the whole mutant power situation, but Punisher would have vastly superior range and is arguably a bit faster. Still, I think Mystique does have a reliable way to get in close with her powers. This is where my lack of Marvel knowledge works against me a bit. My impression was that Punisher is probably a better h2h fighter, although I think Mystique has a slight heal factor. I did a bit of research on this, but it seems inconclusive. In any case, I give Punisher the advantage for being slightly faster, having a bigger standard loadout, which gives him a lot more range, and being at least competitive with her if she does manage to bring it to h2h

I mean the setting is a monastery, I can see the initial fight with bullets flying and grenades leaving rubble, and then Mystique shapeshifts into a wounded monk to draw him in before she TF2 Spy's him. 

[Magnamax]

2 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

I mean the setting is a monastery, I can see the initial fight with bullets flying and grenades leaving rubble, and then Mystique shapeshifts into a wounded monk to draw him in before she TF2 Spy's him. 

Why would that work? Frank is familiar with Mystique and isn’t stupid enough to fall for that sort of trick.

 

In my mind, Frank’s biggest advantage is resourcefulness and tactics. He constantly takes on better opponents but overcomes because he’s really good at leveraging the environment and working under duress. He’s packing better equipment up front and I think outdoes Mystique here. Close and good fight, but these are the sort of things Frank lives for. He takes this.

[Mercenaryblade]

Just now, Magnamax said:

Why would that work? Frank is familiar with Mystique and isn’t stupid enough to fall for that sort of trick.

 

In my mind, Frank’s biggest advantage is resourcefulness and tactics. He constantly takes on better opponents but overcomes because he’s really good at leveraging the environment and working under duress. He’s packing better equipment up front and I think outdoes Mystique here. Close and good fight, but these are the sort of things Frank lives for. He takes this.

Is he familiar with her? I don't recall them ever meeting. Do they have a mission brief on each other? 

[Magnamax]

6 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

Is he familiar with her? I don't recall them ever meeting. Do they have a mission brief on each other? 

He’s very familiar with the x-men and they live on the same planet. I don’t have a scan in front of me but it stands to reason he would know who she is.

[Mercenaryblade]

1 minute ago, Magnamax said:

He’s very familiar with the x-men and they live on the same planet. I don’t have a scan in front of me but it stands to reason he would know who she is.

Mmmm, not necessarily. I don't know how many times Marvel characters meet and ask someone they should know about, "Who are you?" He may just know her as random blue chick. 

[C.T.]

Mystique's on the same level of skill as Frank if not higher, her power gives her an edge in several respects and she has decades more experience than Frank given that she's over 130 years old or around there. Pretty sure she's got this handily

[Magnamax]

Just now, Mercenaryblade said:

Mmmm, not necessarily. I don't know how many times Marvel characters meet and ask someone they should know about, "Who are you?" He may just know her as random blue chick. 

Frank’s whole MO is preparation in engaging others, so I really doubt this. He usually has detailed files with Micro on most super powered beings. 
 
Either way, he’s not falling for “oh I’m a hurt monk, turn around and don’t mind me.” He’s too disciplined for that. 

 

1 minute ago, C.T. said:

Mystique's on the same level of skill as Frank if not higher, her power gives her an edge in several respects and she has decades more experience than Frank given that she's over 130 years old or around there. Pretty sure she's got this handily

What edges do her powers give her? And experience isn’t that relevant when we’re talking characters who have long composite histories. Frank constantly fights Daredevil, Wolverine and Spider-Man, with solid records against those three. I don’t think Mystique is anything overwhelming to him, and I think he’s a better shot who’s packing better equipment.

[C.T.]

1 minute ago, Magnamax said:

What edges do her powers give her? And experience isn’t that relevant when we’re talking characters who have long composite histories. Frank constantly fights Daredevil, Wolverine and Spider-Man, with solid records against those three. I don’t think Mystique is anything overwhelming to him, and I think he’s a better shot who’s packing better equipment.

Frank's not a casual murderer who's going to gun down a bunch of innocent monks. If she's blending in among them, that gives her more room to maneuver. And yes he constantly fights those, but honestly...any of those three should wreck him every time, and in my opinion it's only when Punisher is being wanked by the author that he manages to pull a win out of those fights, because he really shouldn't. Those three are out of his caliber imo. But I digress. I just don't think Frank brings enough here to win.  

[comic_book_fan]

mystique  has given wolverine and psylocke problems in h2h so if frank does beat her in h2h it isn't by much and   and she is almost as good of a shot  and she can shift her weight and form to hit harder and  make the bullets miss   and she is much quicker and more agile    she has this 

[Magnamax]

4 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Frank's not a casual murderer who's going to gun down a bunch of innocent monks. If she's blending in among them, that gives her more room to maneuver. And yes he constantly fights those, but honestly...any of those three should wreck him every time, and in my opinion it's only when Punisher is being wanked by the author that he manages to pull a win out of those fights, because he really shouldn't. Those three are out of his caliber imo. But I digress. I just don't think Frank brings enough here to win.  

Sure, but I don’t think that there are masses of monks standing around right? This is supposed to be a fight in a outdoor arena, a la mortal kombat, is at least how I pictured it. 
 

I guess we can say that, but it’s consistent with his character that he fights those way above his abilities and pulls out good results. Mystique is a good fighter but Frank is on her level and I think is a better shot who is better equipped, that’s a good edge.

[Peypeypeypey]

42 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Frank's not a casual murderer who's going to gun down a bunch of innocent monks. If she's blending in among them, that gives her more room to maneuver. And yes he constantly fights those, but honestly...any of those three should wreck him every time, and in my opinion it's only when Punisher is being wanked by the author that he manages to pull a win out of those fights, because he really shouldn't. Those three are out of his caliber imo. But I digress. I just don't think Frank brings enough here to win.  

II don't think it's authorial wanking if he's consistently written to be at that level. For example, Punisher has 11 fights with Daredevil in this reddit respect thread, 5 of those were decisive victories for Daredevil, 4 were Punisher wins, and the rest were inconclusive. They pretty clearly have a back-and-forth in terms of who would win, which makes sense. They're consistently shown to be around the same skill, so it makes since that their fights can go either way depending on environment, mindset, and any number of other random factors. Similar story with Wolverine: 2 for Wolverine, 1 for Punisher, 1 inconclusive, and 1 of the fights that went to Wolverine was just because he wore Punisher out after a very long fight. So I don't think it's wanking, I think it's just logically where his character falls, power-wise. You can not like the character and think he shouldn't have those wins, but beating DD and Wolvie with some regularity puts him at a pretty logically consistent level

[Boratz]

Im leaning more toward Frank on this one. He is extremely skilled in terms of h2h, close quarters, long range, explosives, and any type of fire arm. He could make anything into a weapon. I'm not trying to take away from Mystique because she has extraordinary skills herself. Even if she changes her form into a wounded monk or someone else, i feel like Frank would be on his toes to realize that he is facing against an opponent that is a shape-shifter. 

[Macklemore]

I thought this specific arena prohibits the usage of guns, so Punisher is stuck with using melee weapons? Or is that just flavor text? In any case, he should be capable of knocking her lights out in a straight forward fight, but Mystique can pull a win here and there by blending in with the area.

[Pizzaguy2995]

22 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I thought this specific arena prohibits the usage of guns, so Punisher is stuck with using melee weapons? Or is that just flavor text? In any case, he should be capable of knocking her lights out in a straight forward fight, but Mystique can pull a win here and there by blending in with the area.

That is a good question. Does Frank start with any of his regular weapons or does he start unarmed like Mystique? When I first read the scenario I assumed they would only be able to use the weapons in the monastery. I feel like we need to have this question cleared up first, because whether Frank has his guns or not could really effect who wins this fight.

[Magnamax]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

I thought this specific arena prohibits the usage of guns, so Punisher is stuck with using melee weapons? Or is that just flavor text? In any case, he should be capable of knocking her lights out in a straight forward fight, but Mystique can pull a win here and there by blending in with the area.

Fights like this almost always go standard load out. There’s nothing that says no guns.

[Z451]

20 hours ago, Magnamax said:

Fights like this almost always go standard load out. There’s nothing that says no guns.

Either way, I don't think Frank will have a problem, as he is trained in H2H as well as probably weapons training as well.

That being said, I can't really say who wins here, as it would be pretty close.

[Fox]

Mystique is on my team, so I'll throw my vote in for her.

That said, I don't feel this battle favors her.  The terrain is not to her advantage (like, say, the New York City terrain would be) and her options to use the psychology of her shapeshifting is limited.

If she knew what Franks dead wife or two children looked like I'd give her better odds in using her shapeshifting to mess with Franks mind.  But, likely, she has no such information.

Still, she's a decent enough fighter so I'll give her a 1 in 9 odds to justify my vote.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Mystique: 7
The Punisher: 6