8:4 - Venom vs. Scarlet Spider

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 8, ROUND 4

Venom

Slot: Vs. Battle Wiki Tier: Urban (Low Power)
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Venom at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Scarlet Spider

Slot: Vs. Battle Wiki Tier: Urban (Low Power)
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Scarlet Spider at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: R'lyeh

[Peypeypeypey]

I don't know a lot about Scarlet Spider, so I won't vote just yet. They obviously both scale to Spidey, and so their physicals are probably roughly the same. I feel like Spiderman usually wins because he's the hero and all, but against Venom on an even playing field in a place like R'lyeh, I genuinely feel like it could go either way. I have two things that make me think Venom might have an advantage here: 1. Venom has more experience on account of Scarlet Spider having a relatively limited series run compared to both the standard Spiderman and Venom, and 2. This line from the wiki: "Ben has retained all of Peter Parker's skills and intelligence, and is a calculating, cunning fighter with greatly developed knowledge in various fields of science. However, he is not as skilled as him in combat due to spending more time outside of his heroic role." If that's true to any substantial degree, then Venom has a really good shot at taking this. Also, in R'lyeh, there aren't a lot of heat or noise sources for Scarlet Spider to use to his advantage. Again, I'm not voting yet, but I am leaning towards Venom

[SSJRuss]

Will present my points later tonight after work.

[DSkillz]

36 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

1. Venom has more experience on account of Scarlet Spider having a relatively limited series run compared to both the standard Spiderman and Venom, and 2. This line from the wiki: "Ben has retained all of Peter Parker's skills and intelligence, and is a calculating, cunning fighter with greatly developed knowledge in various fields of science. However, he is not as skilled as him in combat due to spending more time outside of his heroic role."

Yep, you nailed it, pretty much. Ben Reilly is basically a less-experienced Peter Parker, and a lot of that is due to him being a clone of Pete (or was Peter the clone, as the Green Goblin taunted? ).

[SSJRuss]

So I know most of these battles assume that the opponents know nothing about the other, but is that the same here? Because it would be hard to say otherwise because Ben has all the memories of Peter so he'd know about Venom. The answer to that makes a difference I think.

If Venom thinks this will be an easy battle, he'd be wrong. While you make some good points @Peypeypeypey, my counter to that is the Ben has the advantage of sensing Venom. So unlike all of Peter's battles with Venom, Ben here can use his spider sense. That makes a world of difference because if Peter can beat Venom 6/10 times or whatever without spider sense, then Ben would probably have much better odds on that front.

Scarlet Spider also has the impact webbing that he uses much more frequently than Peter, which I think helps him in this fight against someone like Venom. He has also used this on Venom before to great affect,

From an article on CBR:

"This is another advantage of impact webbing. When Reilly returns to New York, he’s shocked to find that Peter Parker has struck a deal with Venom. With all the memories of the terrible things the Lethal Protector has done, he can’t believe Parker would allow him to roam free. He immediately picks a fight with Venom, which doesn’t go so well, and he's forced to seek treatment for a serious gut wound.

When he returns to finish the fight in “Spider-Man” #53 (written by Howard Mackie with art by Tom Lyle and Scott Hanna), he’s prepared. He’s able to protect Scream from Venom’s wrath by entangling him in a web cocoon long enough for her to get away. Then, when Venom grabs Reilly and brings him close, Reilly fires a few impact web balls into Venom’s mouth. The cocoons form around Eddie Brock, successfully separating him from the symbiote. Unlike Parker, the Scarlet Spider can defeat Venom without having to seek out loud noises."

 

[Peypeypeypey]

33 minutes ago, SSJRuss said:

So I know most of these battles assume that the opponents know nothing about the other, but is that the same here? Because it would be hard to say otherwise because Ben has all the memories of Peter so he'd know about Venom. The answer to that makes a difference I think.

If Venom thinks this will be an easy battle, he'd be wrong. While you make some good points @Peypeypeypey, my counter to that is the Ben has the advantage of sensing Venom. So unlike all of Peter's battles with Venom, Ben here can use his spider sense. That makes a world of difference because if Peter can beat Venom 6/10 times or whatever without spider sense, then Ben would probably have much better odds on that front.

Scarlet Spider also has the impact webbing that he uses much more frequently than Peter, which I think helps him in this fight against someone like Venom. He has also used this on Venom before to great affect,

From an article on CBR:

"This is another advantage of impact webbing. When Reilly returns to New York, he’s shocked to find that Peter Parker has struck a deal with Venom. With all the memories of the terrible things the Lethal Protector has done, he can’t believe Parker would allow him to roam free. He immediately picks a fight with Venom, which doesn’t go so well, and he's forced to seek treatment for a serious gut wound.

When he returns to finish the fight in “Spider-Man” #53 (written by Howard Mackie with art by Tom Lyle and Scott Hanna), he’s prepared. He’s able to protect Scream from Venom’s wrath by entangling him in a web cocoon long enough for her to get away. Then, when Venom grabs Reilly and brings him close, Reilly fires a few impact web balls into Venom’s mouth. The cocoons form around Eddie Brock, successfully separating him from the symbiote. Unlike Parker, the Scarlet Spider can defeat Venom without having to seek out loud noises."

 

I feel like if we assume no knowledge, then Venom would definitely win. But they know each other in canon, so it's fair to include it I think. However, there are a few things I just want to point out. First, even in your reference, they're still 1-1 in one-on-one encounters, and the second time it specifically mentions how he prepares for the fight to some degree. Also, Venom has a much longer character history after this time than Scarlet Spider does, and presumably learns some new tricks and tactics in the elapsed time that would give him an edge. Again though, I don't really know the character too well. I'll leave it to Venom's team leader to debate from here

[SSJRuss]

5 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I feel like if we assume no knowledge, then Venom would definitely win. But they know each other in canon, so it's fair to include it I think. However, there are a few things I just want to point out. First, even in your reference, they're still 1-1 in one-on-one encounters, and the second time it specifically mentions how he prepares for the fight to some degree. Also, Venom has a much longer character history after this time than Scarlet Spider does, and presumably learns some new tricks and tactics in the elapsed time that would give him an edge. Again though, I don't really know the character too well. I'll leave it to Venom's team leader to debate from here

Yeah I get that. Even with my points its still a close fight. We should assume knowledge, they might not need prep time as they will have experience with the fight. I'm sure both characters have changed over time with new tricks and tactics so without knowing all of those details it's kind of hard to judge. Best I can do is stick with Scarlet Spider's spider sense aiding him in the win.

[Macklemore]

The thing is, Spider-Man doesn't ever really have an easy time against Venom, so even if you add the Spider Sense I don't think it's gonna be a surefire win. Kaine had troubles with Flash, so Eddie might destroy him in a physical fight.

[Vincento]

Black spider big and strong. Red spider small and puny.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Venom: 7
Scarlet Spider: 4