9:2 - The Shredder (IDW) vs. Batman

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 9, ROUND 2

The Shredder (IDW)

Slot: The Team's Master Criminal
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about The Shredder (IDW) at this Wiki
Official Site: IDW Publishing

Batman

Slot: The Team's Master Detective
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Batman at this Wiki
Official Site: DC Comics

Battle Terrain
Detective Challenge: Murder at the dinner party

[Peypeypeypey]

This should go to Batman relatively easily. Shredder isn't dumb, but he's not on Batman's level mentally

[RakaiThwei]

26 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

This should go to Batman relatively easily. Shredder isn't dumb, but he's not on Batman's level mentally

Not according to the Batman vs TMNT movie and it's comic counterpart where Batman needed a power suit to beat Shredder in the comic.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

1 minute ago, RakaiThwei said:

Not according to the Batman vs TMNT movie and it's comic counterpart where Batman needed a power suit to beat Shredder in the comic.

Did you read the prompt? Batman is trying to deduce that Shredder killed someone, they're not fighting

[RakaiThwei]

Just now, Peypeypeypey said:

Did you read the prompt? Batman is trying to deduce that Shredder killed someone, they're not fighting

Even so, Oroku Saki, or rather the IDW version has 500 years of experience as a ninja. Everything he's done is covert and clandestine. Unless he as to absolutely be there such as dealing with other figureheads.

Even during the gang war in IDW's TMNT, the NYPD didn't know about the Foot or Shredder even with their best detectives.

[Peypeypeypey]

3 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Even so, Oroku Saki, or rather the IDW version has 500 years of experience as a ninja. Everything he's done is covert and clandestine. Unless he as to absolutely be there such as dealing with other figureheads.

Even during the gang war in IDW's TMNT, the NYPD didn't know about the Foot or Shredder even with their best detectives.

Just about everything you said is mostly true for Ra's Al Ghul, and Batman thwarts him on the regular. Unearthing conspiracies, solving crimes, and catching murderers is something Batman does at a level far above things in the TMNT universe.

[Fox]

There are some things we can see about this based on the scenario

1. An eclectic guest list - so we have multiple interesting suspects.

2. A dead aristocrat - probably had multiple possible folks with something to gain with his murder.

This presents the master criminal the best possible scenario to frame someone else or otherwise get away scott free.

Yes, I know... but Bat God!  Well, you know, the Master Criminal here is no slouch and this scenario actually favors the criminal.

[RakaiThwei]

6 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Just about everything you said is mostly true for Ra's Al Ghul, and Batman thwarts him on the regular. Unearthing conspiracies, solving crimes, and catching murderers is something Batman does at a level far above things in the TMNT universe.

Shredder for the most part sends his Foot ninja, be they the Genin or Elite rank to do assasination missions. And they're not at all the bumbling idiots which most TMNT media shows. They're pretty damn effective at what they do.

Yes, Ra's and Shredder are similar but the Shredder has someone on his side that Ra's doesn't that serves as another pair of eyes for him whenever he's in a situation like this. That being Kitsune, an immortal fox demon witch who rules by his side and also watches Shredder's enemies from a far via mystical means, often in the form of a fox.

Whatever Shredder does and where he goes, Kitsune isn't too far behind (sometimes she is a far but still relays information by mystical means).

So Batman's on the search, Kitsune is going to know about it one way or another and alert Shredder about this.

When Shredder knows about this... He plans things quite carefully. That's why he's been around for over a hundred issues in the IDW series rather than just one compared to his Mirage counterpart.

The IDW Shredder is experienced, organized, and efficient at what he does.

[Peypeypeypey]

1 hour ago, Fox said:

There are some things we can see about this based on the scenario

1. An eclectic guest list - so we have multiple interesting suspects.

2. A dead aristocrat - probably had multiple possible folks with something to gain with his murder.

This presents the master criminal the best possible scenario to frame someone else or otherwise get away scott free.

Yes, I know... but Bat God!  Well, you know, the Master Criminal here is no slouch and this scenario actually favors the criminal.

The Master Criminal isn't a slouch, but Batman is just in a higher tier of intellect. He's able to make absurd logical leaps that almost always end up being correct. Here are a few examples:

Within seconds of seeing a crime scene, is able to deduce not only what happened, but that the criminal is still in the building

Able to almost immediately and correctly identify a suspect and his method of death

He can immediately identify that someone other than the main culprit was at a crime scene just from a quick inspection

Quickly tracks down the true scene where a crime happened and identifies many elements of it the police missed

Quickly and accurately analyses a hair from a previous crime scene to identify a killer

Identifies that Harvey Dent was framed for killing people

Solves a serial killer case faster than other world-class detectives

Deduces that the New God Orion was killed by a time-traveling bullet

Deduces when and where a time traveling Luthor-bot would attack, something Brainiac 5, a literal Super computer, couldn't do

The list goes on. My point is that Batman is a far better detective than Shredder has proven to be a criminal, especially in this particular challenge. He has many feats seeing right through someone being framed, he can almost instantly deduce things that a normal human would take hours or days to figure out, and he's just generally smarter than Shredder. Finally, I disagree with the assessment that this challenge benefits the villain. I actually think the opposite. They're relatively cut off from their immediate support system, assuming they even get access to it for these challenges, and they have to frame someone successfully to truly 100% get away. If they just make a break for it or sneak away, someone as perceptive as Batman or most of the detectives in this slot is going to notice and know that they're the culprit. It's not going to take Batman long to narrow down the suspects 

[Macklemore]

12 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

The Master Criminal isn't a slouch, but Batman is just in a higher tier of intellect. He's able to make absurd logical leaps that almost always end up being correct. Here are a few examples:

Within seconds of seeing a crime scene, is able to deduce not only what happened, but that the criminal is still in the building

Able to almost immediately and correctly identify a suspect and his method of death

He can immediately identify that someone other than the main culprit was at a crime scene just from a quick inspection

Quickly tracks down the true scene where a crime happened and identifies many elements of it the police missed

Quickly and accurately analyses a hair from a previous crime scene to identify a killer

Identifies that Harvey Dent was framed for killing people

Solves a serial killer case faster than other world-class detectives

Deduces that the New God Orion was killed by a time-traveling bullet

Deduces when and where a time traveling Luthor-bot would attack, something Brainiac 5, a literal Super computer, couldn't do

The list goes on. My point is that Batman is a far better detective than Shredder has proven to be a criminal, especially in this particular challenge. He has many feats seeing right through someone being framed, he can almost instantly deduce things that a normal human would take hours or days to figure out, and he's just generally smarter than Shredder. Finally, I disagree with the assessment that this challenge benefits the villain. I actually think the opposite. They're relatively cut off from their immediate support system, assuming they even get access to it for these challenges, and they have to frame someone successfully to truly 100% get away. If they just make a break for it or sneak away, someone as perceptive as Batman or most of the detectives in this slot is going to notice and know that they're the culprit. It's not going to take Batman long to narrow down the suspects 

Pretty much this. Also, I don't know why Kitsune is even being mentioned in the same breath when the general assumption is that they don't have outside help other than the things they generally carry around with them. Kitsune isn't (as far as I know), something that Shredder constantly carries around in their pocket, and if we were to make the jump that she was, wouldn't that give Batman access to Alfred and the extended bat family?

[SSJRuss]

Batman figures out mysteries like this on the daily. He's solved things that don't even make sense on how he did it.

Shredder is a worthy opponent, no doubt there, but he's not Batman.

Besides, Shredder looks like he'd murder someone so I can't imagine it's a stretch of the imagination.

[RakaiThwei]

5 hours ago, Macklemore said:

Pretty much this. Also, I don't know why Kitsune is even being mentioned in the same breath when the general assumption is that they don't have outside help other than the things they generally carry around with them. Kitsune isn't (as far as I know), something that Shredder constantly carries around in their pocket, and if we were to make the jump that she was, wouldn't that give Batman access to Alfred and the extended bat family?

Doesn't Batman have Alfred more or less working with him from a distance via the Bat-Computer anyways or is that just strictly the Arkham games?

[Magnamax]

Batman is regarded as one of the best fictional detectives  because he’s able to typically sort crimes out that defy reason. I think just figuring out a murderer at a dinner party is relatively straightforward, compared to, say) solving the inter dimensional death of a new god. 

[RakaiThwei]

Fuck it. Throwing the towel on this one.

[DSkillz]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:15 PM, RakaiThwei said:

 

 

Gotta watch that film sometime soon. I just recently bought a DVD collection of DC movies that included Batman vs. TMNT.

As for this match-up? I'm sure a fight between Batman and IDW Shredder would be damn close, but in this scenario, Bats should eventually solve it with some struggle.

[RakaiThwei]

8 hours ago, DSkillz said:

As for this match-up? I'm sure a fight between Batman and IDW Shredder would be damn close

In the Batman vs TMNT comic, Shredder actually required a power enhancing suit to take on an AU version of IDW Shredder, who is more or less on the same level as Canon IDW Shredder.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

The Shredder (IDW): 2
Batman: 15

[Venom 2009]

6 hours ago, UMPIRE said:

Match Final Results

The Shredder (IDW): 2
Batman: 15

Batman's 200th win.