9:8 - Kefla vs. Carol Danvers

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 9, ROUND 8

Kefla

Slot: The Team's Anime Character
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Kefla at this Wiki
Official Site: Funimation

Carol Danvers

Slot: The Team's Marvel Comics Character
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Carol Danvers at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Location: Mexico City

[Peypeypeypey]

Kefla seems a lot more powerful at first glance. She's also very inexperienced with her higher level of power, so maybe Carol can turn that against her, but my initial thought is that Kefla should be comfortably ahead in this fight

[Mercenaryblade]

Now this is a fight I'd like to see play out 

[Macklemore]

Carol hasn't showcased the ability to absorb the amount of energy that DB characters throw around, so I think it's safe to say that Kefla could potentially overload Carol if she tried to be coy.

[C.T.]

This would be a badass fight visually but yeah Kefla was one of the most powerful beings in the tournament of power and I don't think Carol can handle that much power. 

[Movie-Brat]

I think she can. If inexperience is a big flaw for Kefla, Carol is smart enough to use that to her advantage. I'm not saying this out of bias unlike others. 

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/24/2021 at 8:06 PM, Movie-Brat said:

I think she can. If inexperience is a big flaw for Kefla, Carol is smart enough to use that to her advantage. I'm not saying this out of bias unlike others. 

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I'm confused, are you saying I'm biased in favor of Kefla?

In any case, I don't know that I would call inexperience a specific "weakness" of hers. It's not really something that Goku, himself an incredibly gifted fighter, saw as enough of a weakness to exploit, but it was more just a general statement by me that she doesn't have much experience at all with her upper tiers of power, from what we see in Super 

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 12:38 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

I'm confused, are you saying I'm biased in favor of Kefla?

In any case, I don't know that I would call inexperience a specific "weakness" of hers. It's not really something that Goku, himself an incredibly gifted fighter, saw as enough of a weakness to exploit, but it was more just a general statement by me that she doesn't have much experience at all with her upper tiers of power, from what we see in Super 

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That's what I'm getting at, Carol is a more experienced fighter. She's met rougher people. 

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/25/2021 at 2:47 AM, Movie-Brat said:

That's what I'm getting at, Carol is a more experienced fighter. She's met rougher people. 

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Kefla might not have experience, but she has such a massive power advantage it doesn't really matter. She kept up with Super Saiyan God Goku, who was shaking the entire universe with his hits, and he's only gotten stronger since then. I wouldn't necessarily say she's a Universe-buster, but she's definitely way higher than Carol has shown to be, unless you can give a concrete reason why Carol is stronger

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 3:25 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

Kefla might not have experience, but she has such a massive power advantage it doesn't really matter. She kept up with Super Saiyan God Goku, who was shaking the entire universe with his hits, and he's only gotten stronger since then. I wouldn't necessarily say she's a Universe-buster, but she's definitely way higher than Carol has shown to be, unless you can give a concrete reason why Carol is stronger

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Shattering meteors:

https://m.imgur.com/a/Nr1Hi

Survived Magik fused with the Phoenix:

https://m.imgur.com/a/DekfV

Absorbed a nuke:

https://m.imgur.com/a/NOuNE

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/25/2021 at 4:25 AM, Movie-Brat said:

Shattering meteors:

https://m.imgur.com/a/Nr1Hi

Survived Magik fused with the Phoenix:

https://m.imgur.com/a/DekfV

Absorbed a nuke:

https://m.imgur.com/a/NOuNE

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Shattering a meteor and absorbing a nuke are nowhere near Kefla's level. Legit, characters at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z could do that effortlessly. Roshi at the beginning of Z was able to destroy a whole moon, and Goku is literally billions of times stronger than Roshi at the beginning of Super. Again, Kefla fought evenly with Super Saiyan God Goku, who shook a universe with a fight on his. Even if you super lowball that to "just" multi-galaxy level because he doesn't physically destroy a galaxy, that would still be more impressive than what Carol is capable of. Surviving Phoenix hitting her is undeniably impressive, but it doesn't even appear that Phoenix was trying to kill her there. It also one-shot her so it's hardly impressive. 

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 5:17 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

Shattering a meteor and absorbing a nuke are nowhere near Kefla's level. Legit, characters at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z could do that effortlessly. Roshi at the beginning of Z was able to destroy a whole moon, and Goku is literally billions of times stronger than Roshi at the beginning of Super. Again, Kefla fought evenly with Super Saiyan God Goku, who shook a universe with a fight on his. Even if you super lowball that to "just" multi-galaxy level because he doesn't physically destroy a galaxy, that would still be more impressive than what Carol is capable of. Surviving Phoenix hitting her is undeniably impressive, but it doesn't even appear that Phoenix was trying to kill her there. It also one-shot her so it's hardly impressive. 

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There are many more demonstrations of her strength and durability. Besides, it was proven with Cell and Trunks that when they increased their power, they moved slower. Likely, same thing for Kefla and Captain Marvel can just avoid her. 

https://www.quora.com/How-powerful-is-Captain-Marvel-in-the-comics-and-as-in-her-overall-strength

[C.T.]

  On 5/25/2021 at 6:24 AM, Movie-Brat said:

Besides, it was proven with Cell and Trunks that when they increased their power, they moved slower. Likely, same thing for Kefla and Captain Marvel can just avoid her.

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No, not quite. That was only for two very specific transformations that had sheer muscle mass slowing them. Literally every other transformation is proven to have speed increase, Kefla’s included. So not likely at all. 
 

And speaking of transformations, it should be noted that Kefla held her own with super saiyan god Goku in her base form. It wasn’t until Super Saiyan Blue that she went Super Saiyan herself. And then Super Saiyan 2 even later on.

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 6:32 AM, C.T. said:

No, not quite. That was only for two very specific transformations that had sheer muscle mass slowing them. Literally every other transformation is proven to have speed increase, Kefla’s included. So not likely at all. 
 

And speaking of transformations, it should be noted that Kefla held her own with super saiyan god Goku in her base form. It wasn’t until Super Saiyan Blue that she went Super Saiyan herself. And then Super Saiyan 2 even later on.

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That's my point. More muscle equals slow. It should be but DBZ is always inconsistent with strength. 

[C.T.]

  On 5/25/2021 at 7:46 AM, Movie-Brat said:

That's my point. More muscle equals slow. It should be but DBZ is always inconsistent with strength. 

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Yeah but that only applies to those two specific transformations of Trunks and Cell really, and no other ones, so your point is thrown out the window completely.

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 8:53 AM, C.T. said:

Yeah but that only applies to those two specific transformations of Trunks and Cell really, and no other ones, so your point is thrown out the window completely.

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As I said, it's always inconsistent with strength. And even so, Carol has demonstrated a lot of feats. Just because somebody is in DBZ, doesn't mean they're all stronger than everyone else. 

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/25/2021 at 9:18 AM, Movie-Brat said:

As I said, it's always inconsistent with strength. And even so, Carol has demonstrated a lot of feats. Just because somebody is in DBZ, doesn't mean they're all stronger than everyone else. 

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I agree. No one is say that just because she's in DBZ she wins. We're saying that she matches strength with someone who is a universal threat, as in, capable of outright destroying the universe. Carol has never demonstrated anywhere near that level of power. She's Solar System-level, which is good, but not as strong as Kefla.

Also, Marvel and DC are famously inconsistent as well. Most of the discussions are here are about decrypting those inconsistencies and figuring out how they would act in any given fight

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 9:25 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

I agree. No one is say that just because she's in DBZ she wins. We're saying that she matches strength with someone who is a universal threat, as in, capable of outright destroying the universe. Carol has never demonstrated anywhere near that level of power. She's Solar System-level, which is good, but not as strong as Kefla.

Also, Marvel and DC are famously inconsistent as well. Most of the discussions are here are about decrypting those inconsistencies and figuring out how they would act in any given fight

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But, Carol has lifted a Celestial before. She took on alien gods and won. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/captmarvelnews/status/996733860653256704?lang=bg

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/25/2021 at 6:06 PM, Movie-Brat said:

But, Carol has lifted a Celestial before. She took on alien gods and won. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/captmarvelnews/status/996733860653256704?lang=bg

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I don't even know how heavy a Celestial is, and just because something is a God, doesn't mean that it's omnipotent or anything. Was this God a universal being? 

[Macklemore]

  On 5/25/2021 at 7:55 PM, Peypeypeypey said:

I don't even know how heavy a Celestial is, and just because something is a God, doesn't mean that it's omnipotent or anything. Was this God a universal being? 

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Celestials in general are, but this might be taken out of context. I don't know the exact comic this came from, but they're either really giving Carol a huge power spike (which I wouldn't doubt) or this has some hidden context behind it.

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 8:01 PM, Macklemore said:

Celestials in general are, but this might be taken out of context. I don't know the exact comic this came from, but they're either really giving Carol a huge power spike (which I wouldn't doubt) or this has some hidden context behind it.

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It's from Jason Aaron's current Avengers run. First arc especially. It involved the Celestials and Loki. More specifically Dark Celestials. 

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/25/2021 at 9:31 PM, Movie-Brat said:

It's from Jason Aaron's current Avengers run. First arc especially. It involved the Celestials and Loki. More specifically Dark Celestials. 

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That tweet doesn't show her fighting a Celestial, just moving one. Does she actually fight them, and if so can you provide a scan

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 10:53 PM, Peypeypeypey said:

That tweet doesn't show her fighting a Celestial, just moving one. Does she actually fight them, and if so can you provide a scan

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Between an energy boost and combining powers with others, she has.

And while technically the Celestial she was carrying was dead but, she managed to lift the friggin alien god and place it somewhere where it won't crush people.

[Peypeypeypey]

  On 5/25/2021 at 11:25 PM, Movie-Brat said:

Between an energy boost and combining powers with others, she has.

 

 

And while technically the Celestial she was carrying was dead but, she managed to lift the friggin alien god and place it somewhere where it won't crush people.

 

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Deleted the images to save space on the thread, but while those are impressive feats, she isn't personally matching strength with those Celestials one-on-one. I don't know the full context as I haven't read the comic, but at the very least Cyttorak was involved, and they way they defeated the Celestials was by combining powers according to BP, which is something she can't do in this matchup because she's fighting alone. I need more evidence than this to put her on Kefla's level

[Movie-Brat]

  On 5/25/2021 at 11:31 PM, Peypeypeypey said:

Deleted the images to save space on the thread, but while those are impressive feats, she isn't personally matching strength with those Celestials one-on-one. I don't know the full context as I haven't read the comic, but at the very least Cyttorak was involved, and they way they defeated the Celestials was by combining powers according to BP, which is something she can't do in this matchup because she's fighting alone. I need more evidence than this to put her on Kefla's level

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But the bigger the energy, the powerful Carol gets. And Kefla fires a lot of energy blasts like the average DBZ character. 

Plus, she can still go binary and has precognitive sense.

https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-powers-never-used/