11:3 - Rebecca Chambers vs. The Holographic Doctor

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 11, ROUND 3

Rebecca Chambers

Slot: The Team's Medic
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Rebecca Chambers at this Wiki
Official Site: Capcom

The Holographic Doctor

Slot: The Team's Medic
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about The Holographic Doctor at this Wiki
Official Site: Paramount Television

Battle Terrain
Medical Challenge: Bedside Manner

[C.T.]

Well, Rebecca's sweet, adorable and overall very supportive to just about everyone she's ever met, and from what I remember, the Doc tended to be a jerk frequently, though I think he did grow to be like a classic jerk with a heart of gold type? 

[Fox]

Having no bedside manner at all was kind of the Holographic Doctor's bit.  It was essentially his character arc to develop any bedside manner at all.

I'd have to go with Rebecca here.

[RiotGear]

The Docs bedside manner was a bit rough in the beginning, but a big part of his character arc was developing one.

And by the end was he not only well liked by his regular patients, but was regularly well received by people he didn't know

Remember making patients feel comfortable isn't all about being nice. 

Patients also want to know/feel you are confident in your abilities and have the necessary skills required to treat them. This is where The Doc's gonna shine in this match he looks and sounds the part.

He's not some sweet medic, he's a Doctor with the skill and confidence to keep you alive and in times of medical need that's the kind of thing that makes patients truly comfortable.

 

 

[C.T.]

Well, this challenge explicitly seems about interpersonal skills, and besides, Rebecca's no slouch in the medical department, especially considering what she had to deal with.

[RiotGear]

23 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Well, this challenge explicitly seems about interpersonal skills, and besides, Rebecca's no slouch in the medical department, especially considering what she had to deal with.

It is about interpersonal skills, but it's also about making the patient feel comfortable.

To do that the care provider has to not only make there patient trust their intentions, but also their ability.

Perhaps it shouldn't be the case, but the ability to do that depends a lot on appearance and presentation.

Being nice and young can actually work against Chambers in some ways. Those are not traits people generally associate with being a medical professional.

The Doctor looks and sounds like an experienced professional that can be trusted to know what he's doing.

It may be a different style of comfort than Chambers provides, but it's often the kind that people truly want.

That's not counting all the "give it to me straight doc" types that would be put off by sweet and nice.

There is more then one kind of patient after all.

 

[C.T.]

10 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

Being nice and young can actually work against Chambers in some ways. Those are not traits people generally associate with being a medical professional.

I'm sorry, what? That's absurd. Those traits are definitely associated with plenty of medical professionals.

[RiotGear]

14 minutes ago, C.T. said:

I'm sorry, what? That's absurd. Those traits are definitely associated with plenty of medical professionals.

Youth is often associate with inexperience and naivety which are not traits people look for in medical professionals, they want/expect experience and education.

As for nice/sweet people. They are often seen as push overs/easily manipulated or some how not as focused/serious as other people. They are also not viewed as the take charge do what is needed type. 

And patients tend to want focused, serious, take charge medical providers who will do what is needed to take care of them.

[C.T.]

2 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

Youth is often associate with inexperience and naivety which are not traits people look for in medical professionals, they want/expect experience and education.

Age is no guarantee of efficiency, and literally all licensed medical professionals have the education. There are many, many medical professionals that are young and just as good. Like 75% of doctors and nurses and other medical professionals I've been seen by are young. That doesn't mean they're bad. I just don't buy this argument.

7 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

As for nice/sweet people. They are often seen as push overs/easily manipulated or some how not as focused/serious as other people. They are also not viewed as the take charge do what is needed type. 

Being kind doesn't mean you let people walk all over you, or that you're not as focused. These generalities especially don't count here with Rebecca.

 

10 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

And patients tend to want focused, serious, take charge medical providers who will do what is needed to take care of them.

Rebecca will do that, and be a lot more charming while doing so. 

[RiotGear]

2 hours ago, C.T. said:

Age is no guarantee of efficiency, and literally all licensed medical professionals have the education. There are many, many medical professionals that are young and just as good. Like 75% of doctors and nurses and other medical professionals I've been seen by are young. That doesn't mean they're bad. I just don't buy this argument.

Being kind doesn't mean you let people walk all over you, or that you're not as focused. These generalities especially don't count here with Rebecca.

 

Rebecca will do that, and be a lot more charming while doing so. 

If we were talking about medical skill/efficiency you'd be right, but we are talking about perception.

Because in interpersonal relationships of any kind first impressions are important and people carry existing biases into them.

Even in our modern world when a lot of people think of a doctor they think of an middle aged-ish male with a fairly serious demeoner and an obvious education.

 

[leroypowell3]

Personally I would prefer the Doctor. Rebecca may be easy on the eyes but I would honestly feel good in the holograms hands (unless there's a power failure).

[C.T.]

4 hours ago, RiotGear said:

If we were talking about medical skill/efficiency you'd be right, but we are talking about perception.

Because in interpersonal relationships of any kind first impressions are important and people carry existing biases into them.

Even in our modern world when a lot of people think of a doctor they think of an middle aged-ish male with a fairly serious demeoner and an obvious education.

 

Dunno, think you’re underestimating the combination of being adorable, kind and prodigiously intelligent here. Even if she doesn’t make a good first impression, which I personally doubt, if anybody could turn it around I’d say it’d be her over him.

And that she would make people feel more comfortable and at ease.

[Twogunkid]

The Doctor has quite the manner by the end of Voyager. He is able to put people at ease and even spends his daydreaming subroutine thinking about calming a patient through song.

 

He starts injecting humor into his bedside manner and his witty repartee can take someone's mind of their illness.

Singing for a Pon'Farr seized Tuvok

[Peypeypeypey]

Gotta say, the people making arguments for the Doctor have made very compelling arguments so far. I don't know much about either, but from what I understand I think it's only fair to take them both at the end of their series. In that case, the Holographic Doctor seems to be fairly amicable. I honestly think it might depend on who the patient is, but I'm leaning towards the Doctor

[Pizzaguy2995]

Sorry Holo Doc, but give me Rebecca Chambers as my bedside doctor any day! 🥰

[RiotGear]

19 hours ago, C.T. said:

Dunno, think you’re underestimating the combination of being adorable, kind and prodigiously intelligent here. Even if she doesn’t make a good first impression, which I personally doubt, if anybody could turn it around I’d say it’d be her over him.

And that she would make people feel more comfortable and at ease.

Being adorable again is actually something of a detriment as people to tend to think of attractivness and intelligence as opposites a stereotype perpetuated by pop cultures version of nerds.

Even more so when it comes to women especially young ones as society views young women/teenage girls as silly, flighty etc.

 

[RiotGear]

Worth noting is that The Doctor was also part of successful diplomatic and clandestine missions during his time on Voyager, sometimes on his own and on the fly. 

This is an another indicator that he knows what to and when to say/do things get people to behave the way he needs them too. This includes calming them and making them trust him.

 

[C.T.]

3 hours ago, RiotGear said:

Being adorable again is actually something of a detriment as people to tend to think of attractivness and intelligence as opposites a stereotype perpetuated by pop cultures version of nerds.

Even more so when it comes to women especially young ones as society views young women/teenage girls as silly, flighty etc.

 

Broad generalizations that don’t matter since she’ll immediately disprove them.

[RiotGear]

26 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Broad generalizations that don’t matter since she’ll immediately disprove them.

She may get there, but the point is she is going to have to prove herself in a way The Doctor doesn't have to.

[Twogunkid]

26 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

She may get there, but the point is she is going to have to prove herself in a way The Doctor doesn't have to.

That is a stretch. I think there are better arguments you can make for the EMH.

[C.T.]

4 hours ago, RiotGear said:

She may get there, but the point is she is going to have to prove herself in a way The Doctor doesn't have to.

Yeah, I just don’t agree. This is a weak argument. Her being endearing and kind does not detract from her intelligence, and I’d even argue this perception of intelligent people in pop culture not being attractive is looking backwards and isn’t true in the times. MCU Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker and his friends, Jane Foster and Shuri, Q in the Daniel Craig James Bond films, Sam Neill, Laura Dern, Jeff Goldblum and BD Wong in Jurassic Park, Rachel Weisz in the Mummy, James McAvoy in X-Men, Josh from Drake and Josh(eventually) and his girlfriend character in that, et cetera. A lot of these figures have dominated pop culture as of recent years and I think that overall it has moved away from that perception of attractive can’t be smart. Just bizarre thinking, I say.

Regardless, even if the Doc warmed up to people eventually, Rebecca starts with that kind charm from the word go, on top of being an intelligent prodigy, so ultimately I’d say people would be more comfortable with her bedside manner. 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

6 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Regardless, even if the Doc warmed up to people eventually, Rebecca starts with that kind charm from the word go, on top of being an intelligent prodigy, so ultimately I’d say people would be more comfortable with her bedside manner. 

This argument isn't fair because we don't take characters from the beginning of their arcs, we've always taken them from the peak of their performance in the respective category. If Goku were in a fight on here, it would be completely unfair of you to say "well at the beginning of Z, Goku wasn't even a mountain buster, so he loses." The same logic applies here. His arc was in overcoming his brash nature and becoming more hospitable, but he completed that arc and did become hospitable, so it's completely unfair to use him from the beginning of his arc against him now. I'm not even saying Rebecca for sure loses, but this argument strikes me as very unfair

[C.T.]

1 minute ago, Peypeypeypey said:

This argument isn't fair because we don't take characters from the beginning of their arcs, we've always taken them from the peak of their performance in the respective category. If Goku were in a fight on here, it would be completely unfair of you to say "well at the beginning of Z, Goku wasn't even a mountain buster, so he loses." The same logic applies here. His arc was in overcoming his brash nature and becoming more hospitable, but he completed that arc and did become hospitable, so it's completely unfair to use him from the beginning of his arc against him now. I'm not even saying Rebecca for sure loses, but this argument strikes me as very unfair

Oh, no, I agree, use him from his best in this regard. What I’m saying is from what I remember, he never fully lost that jerk nature, though he did become far more hospitable compared to what he used to be. Yet even so, at his best I don’t think his bedside manner would be as comforting as Rebecca’s, that’s what I mean.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Rebecca Chambers: 8
The Holographic Doctor: 5