11:4 - Raya vs. Rapunzel

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 11, ROUND 4

Raya

Slot: The Team's Disney Princess
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Raya at this Wiki
Official Site: Disney

Rapunzel

Slot: The Team's Disney Princess
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Rapunzel at this Wiki
Official Site: Public Domain

Battle Terrain
Princess Challenge: Animal Army!

[Pizzaguy2995]

Raya can recruit dragons and whatever Tuk Tuk is into her animal army. She wins this!

[leroypowell3]

Rapunzil could do this but I'd put her low on the list. Raya may well be the champ in this scenario. 

[Mercenaryblade]

Rapunzel has Maximus on her side, that horse is a... one horse army. 

[RiotGear]

While Raya's dragons may appear more impressive on the surface, they didn't seem particularly combat savvy.

And we're easily felled by crossbow bolts. So in spite of there spirit/God like nature, which could be argued precludes them as counting as animals, can be hurt by mortal means.

Rapunzel on the other hand has, as already mentioned, Maximus. Who proved his combat chops in the first movie and in the follow up material was made a officer of the Royal Guard And showed some tactical awareness.

He is also shown giving commands to the other horses, the guards use in the first movie. 

So Rapunzel can actually call on a trained para-military force.

[Pizzaguy2995]

6 hours ago, RiotGear said:

While Raya's dragons may appear more impressive on the surface, they didn't seem particularly combat savvy.

And we're easily felled by crossbow bolts. So in spite of there spirit/God like nature, which could be argued precludes them as counting as animals, can be hurt by mortal means.

Rapunzel on the other hand has, as already mentioned, Maximus. Who proved his combat chops in the first movie and in the follow up material was made a officer of the Royal Guard And showed some tactical awareness.

He is also shown giving commands to the other horses, the guards use in the first movie. 

So Rapunzel can actually call on a trained para-military force.

And Maximus wouldn’t be felled by a crossbow bolt to the heart?

Even if Sisu isn’t fully immortal she can still control the weather, manipulate water, fly, and shape shift. I’ll take a magically enhanced Dragon over a military trained horse any day of the week dude.

And I’d especially take an army of dragons over an army of horses all day every day.

[RiotGear]

3 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

And Maximus wouldn’t be felled by a crossbow bolt to the heart?

Even if Sisu isn’t fully immortal she can still control the weather, manipulate water, fly, and shape shift. I’ll take a magically enhanced Dragon over a military trained horse any day of the week dude.

And I’d especially take an army of dragons over an army of horses all day every day.

Maximus like would drop to a well placed crossbow bolt, but he also wouldn't stand around and get shot.

Again the dragons have impressive magical powers, but limited displayed combat skills and they don't like to fight.

This means they have limited coordination when they have to and generally operate more like a mob than an army.

So again what is more impressive from a military standpoint a mob of magical pacifists or a dedicated unit of para-military trained individuals led by an experienced and combat savvy commander?

Few of other things to consider. 

Do dragons count as animals or are they better classed as gods/spirits or given there intelligence and social structure should we count them as people. Yes biologically humans are animals, but that kind of goes against the intent of the scenario.

Even if we count the dragons can Raya rally them to a military cause post movie. Where as Rapunzel's animal companions stayed with her post movie and served her interests. It seemed like the dragons and Raya mostly just had interests that aligned and given there apparent dislike for conflict and war. If she called on them as military allies she is just as likely to end up with a present as a squad of dragons.

Granted Raya has Tuck-Tuck and maybe the umogi's, but threw out the Tangled series Rapunzel doesn't just have Maximus, she also has Pascal and later she is aided by Fidella another personal horse, as well as Hamuel ( a crow ) and Ruddiger ( a raccoon ). So Rapunzel has a more impressive variety of animals in here force.

A force again that has stayed with and operates sometimes independently to further her interests.

Raya assembledge of animals, Tuck-Tuck aside have there own thing going on and may or may not join her for any given quest.

 

[Pizzaguy2995]

17 hours ago, RiotGear said:

Maximus like would drop to a well placed crossbow bolt, but he also wouldn't stand around and get shot.

He also wouldn’t be able to shoot a crossbow, he doesn’t have hands or opposable fingers. So no chance of Sisu getting bolted regardless.

17 hours ago, RiotGear said:

Again the dragons have impressive magical powers, but limited displayed combat skills and they don't like to fight.

This means they have limited coordination when they have to and generally operate more like a mob than an army.

A mob that can spam magical water, control the weather, and fly! Their also much bigger then the horses, so it really doesn’t matter if their more mob then army, their abilities make them far more deadly and efficient then any organized force.

17 hours ago, RiotGear said:

So again what is more impressive from a military standpoint a mob of magical pacifists or a dedicated unit of para-military trained individuals led by an experienced and combat savvy commander?

I’d have to say the army of magical dragons, by virtue that we see military trained forces literally every day in almost every corner of the world. You know what the average joe doesn’t see everyday? An army of motherfucking dragons!

17 hours ago, RiotGear said:

Do dragons count as animals or are they better classed as gods/spirits or given there intelligence and social structure should we count them as people. Yes biologically humans are animals, but that kind of goes against the intent of the scenario.

Even if we count the dragons can Raya rally them to a military cause post movie. Where as Rapunzel's animal companions stayed with her post movie and served her interests. It seemed like the dragons and Raya mostly just had interests that aligned and given there apparent dislike for conflict and war. If she called on them as military allies she is just as likely to end up with a present as a squad of dragons.

You yourself have pointed out that they can be hurt or killed by mortal means, so if their gods/spirits their very, very low tier versions of them. The argument for them being too intelligent and socially structured to be animals is not meritless, although we could make a similar argument about Maximus and other horses of Tangled. Max and Fidella in particular seem to demonstrate intelligence and emotional bonds on par with if not exceeding humans.

The dragons of Kumamdra are specifically stated to be the guardians and protectors of the humans residing there, heck the reason why Susi is the last dragon is because the others died fighting the evil Druun to save and protect the humans. So while they do prefer to avoid conflict, they will literally fight to the last of them to protect the humans of Kumamdra.

17 hours ago, RiotGear said:

Granted Raya has Tuck-Tuck and maybe the umogi's, but threw out the Tangled series Rapunzel doesn't just have Maximus, she also has Pascal and later she is aided by Fidella another personal horse, as well as Hamuel ( a crow ) and Ruddiger ( a raccoon ). So Rapunzel has a more impressive variety of animals in here force.

A force again that has stayed with and operates sometimes independently to further her interests.

Raya assembledge of animals, Tuck-Tuck aside have there own thing going on and may or may not join her for any given quest

I mean that last argument could be used against Rapunzel as well. Ruddiger is Varian’s companion and Hamuel is Eugene’s dad pet, so they also may or may not join Rapunzel’s forces. Also I distinctly remember Fidella going with Cassandra when SPOILER ALERT she leaves Corona at the end of the series to  find her own destiny, so she might not be available either.

Again the dragons are the guardians and protectors of Raya’s homeland, so while yes they do generally prefer peaceful methods, if Raya requests their help to defend the land, then I couldn’t imagine them sitting it out.

[RiotGear]

6 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

He also wouldn’t be able to shoot a crossbow, he doesn’t have hands or opposable fingers. So no chance of Sisu getting bolted regardless.

A mob that can spam magical water, control the weather, and fly! Their also much bigger then the horses, so it really doesn’t matter if their more mob then army, their abilities make them far more deadly and efficient then any organized force.

I’d have to say the army of magical dragons, by virtue that we see military trained forces literally every day in almost every corner of the world. You know what the average joe doesn’t see everyday? An army of motherfucking dragons!

You yourself have pointed out that they can be hurt or killed by mortal means, so if their gods/spirits their very, very low tier versions of them. The argument for them being too intelligent and socially structured to be animals is not meritless, although we could make a similar argument about Maximus and other horses of Tangled. Max and Fidella in particular seem to demonstrate intelligence and emotional bonds on par with if not exceeding humans.

The dragons of Kumamdra are specifically stated to be the guardians and protectors of the humans residing there, heck the reason why Susi is the last dragon is because the others died fighting the evil Druun to save and protect the humans. So while they do prefer to avoid conflict, they will literally fight to the last of them to protect the humans of Kumamdra.

I mean that last argument could be used against Rapunzel as well. Ruddiger is Varian’s companion and Hamuel is Eugene’s dad pet, so they also may or may not join Rapunzel’s forces. Also I distinctly remember Fidella going with Cassandra when SPOILER ALERT she leaves Corona at the end of the series to  find her own destiny, so she might not be available either.

Again the dragons are the guardians and protectors of Raya’s homeland, so while yes they do generally prefer peaceful methods, if Raya requests their help to defend the land, then I couldn’t imagine them sitting it out.

Hit with a crossbow bolt no, stabbed yes. Sisu and the other dragons showed limited to no martial prowess.

A tsunami or earthquake is deadly does that make it an impressive military force? 

Low level gods/spirits it would still make them not animals. Horses on the other hand regardless of intelligence are a recognizable species of animal and arguable the kind of animal this scenario is discussing.

Right guardians of the people, dedicated to protecting Kumandra and humans, so unless they are raised against an inhuman for they are going to pursue peace. Sisu kept pursuing peace at all costs when human conflict was involved. The only time the dragons fought back was against the Drune.

Yes some of Rapunzel's animal friends do "belong" to other characters, but those are characters that works for and belong to the same country and have the same national interests as Rapunzel her self, they also live closer so are easier to call on in times of need.

[Mercenaryblade]

28 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

Hit with a crossbow bolt no, stabbed yes. Sisu and the other dragons showed limited to no martial prowess.

A tsunami or earthquake is deadly does that make it an impressive military force? 

Low level gods/spirits it would still make them not animals. Horses on the other hand regardless of intelligence are a recognizable species of animal and arguable the kind of animal this scenario is discussing.

Right guardians of the people, dedicated to protecting Kumandra and humans, so unless they are raised against an inhuman for they are going to pursue peace. Sisu kept pursuing peace at all costs when human conflict was involved. The only time the dragons fought back was against the Drune.

Yes some of Rapunzel's animal friends do "belong" to other characters, but those are characters that works for and belong to the same country and have the same national interests as Rapunzel her self, they also live closer so are easier to call on in times of need.

Unrelated I've always liked your username. I picture someone in full riot garb typing on a computer.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Raya: 7
Rapunzel: 5