12:1 - Sarah Connor vs. Hadley's Hope (LV-426)

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 1

Sarah Connor

Slot: The Team's Survivor
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Sarah Connor at this Wiki
Official Site: TriStar Pictures/Sony

Hadley's Hope (LV-426)

Slot: The Team's Location
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Hadley's Hope (LV-426) at this Wiki
Official Site: Twentieth Century Studios

Battle Terrain
Sidekick vs. Terrain

[Mercenaryblade]

James Cameronverse 

[Fox]

She has to survive 24 hours.  That is what the challenge says.

We know from Newt that they mostly come at night.  Mostly. (Damn, why didn't I pick Newt as my survivor?)

So, really Sarah just has to survive the night hours.  Can she find somewhere to avoid detection?  We know that Sarah is good at hiding from Terminators.  Well, Newt did it, so maybe so.

 

[RakaiThwei]

1 hour ago, Fox said:

So, really Sarah just has to survive the night hours.  Can she find somewhere to avoid detection?  We know that Sarah is good at hiding from Terminators.  Well, Newt did it, so maybe so.

Yeah but Newt was also a lot smaller, and she was able to fit in the ventilation ducts where the Xenomorphs couldn't. It was her only means of survival and even the comic adaptation of ALIENS, Newt's Tale, strongly emphasized on this. I really don't see Sarah Connor being able to take advantage of something which a small six to eight year old child was able to because of the smaller size Newt had.

Also, given the fact that the Xenomorphs likely familiarized themselves with the layout of Hadley's Hope on LV-426, you HAVE to give them a familiarity advantage where as Sarah Connor, likely would have to rely on a map layout of the colony to do so.

I would say the Xenomorphs have this.

[RiotGear]

This is Sarah freaking Connor not a small child. She doesn't have to hide she spends a day making the place safe for human habitation then goes back to here day job of hunting terminators and saving the future of the human race.

[RakaiThwei]

13 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

This is Sarah freaking Connor not a small child.

Yeah. And I don't care if she is Sarah Connor.

A firing squad of twelve Colonial Marines who were better armed and better trained were turned into damn mince meat by the Xenomorphs, especially when Lt. Gorman had ordered them to withdraw armor piercing firing in there and rely on flamethrowers with suppressing fire. A fine plan, but considering that the Xenomorphs were well camoflagued in the nodes which they were resting in, and picking the Marines off quickly and one by one-- speaks VOLUMES of the terror the Xenomorphs can bring. Sarah Connor likely DOES NOT have familiarity with the colony layout of LV-426, she likely doesn't know that firing in the reactor likely would and will make the colony evaporate the size of Nebraska, and given that there was a colony population of 158 people... last I recalled, as well as one Queen and a seemingly growing number of eggs... The odds are stacked against her.

Even Ellen Ripley had irrationally, although understandably decided to take on the Hive by herself... all to rescue Newt. And she only armed herself with an M41A Pulse Rifle, and an M40 Flamethrower, and M80 Launcher Grenades and flares... was already screwed when she went full burst and used up all her ammunition on the eggs. One person cannot take on an entire Hive, and Sarah likely won't even so much as have the same equipment as the Colonial Marines do.

At best, she probably has the same level equipment as our modern military... Watch AVP-R where the national guard takes on the Xenomorphs in the open streets. It didn't end so well for them.

I don't see Sarah doing well here either. Especially... ESPECIALLY if the Xenomorphs swarm... Which THEY do as demonstrated here.

Oh and don't even get me started on if she tries to escape through the tunnels!

 

[Fox]

2 hours ago, RiotGear said:

This is Sarah freaking Connor not a small child. She doesn't have to hide she spends a day making the place safe for human habitation then goes back to here day job of hunting terminators and saving the future of the human race.

With all mad respect for Sarah Conner, I do not see her being able to solo LV-426.  

I would theorize about her possibly surviving, but it's a bridge too far for me to consider a one-woman war on the hive there.

[Peypeypeypey]

I feel like Sarah Connor can survive most likely. It really depends on when exactly it happens in the story of Hadley's Hope, how well equipped Sarah is, etc.

[RakaiThwei]

10 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I feel like Sarah Connor can survive most likely. It really depends on when exactly it happens in the story of Hadley's Hope, how well equipped Sarah is, etc.

Assuming that this is Sarah Connor alone, with no one to help her... I just don't it happening.

The Xenomorphs have a lot more familiarity with the colony and even managed to overwhelm the colonists who were moderately armed, and even had a USCMC squadron guarding them as far as the events of Hadley Hope's infestation were concerned. And these were individuals who were also familiar with the layout of the colony as well but the Xenomorphs managed to get through whatever barricades likely by sneaking through the ceiling and the underground tunnels-- the same tunnels which is how Bishop managed to get through to get to the satellites to remote pilote the UDL4 Cheyenne from the Sulaco.

And in the case of the Sulaco's Marines setting up barricades and senty guns in the hallway, and blocking off the underground tunnels-- the Xenomorphs managed to get around these obstacles fairly quickly while also sacrificing numbers to the sentries, as their approach was to have the marines focused on the sentries while they were getting around by alternative means. And setting up the barricades and sentry guns took a group of Marines and a couple of civilian consultants to set up, work which takes more than one person to do, and I don't see Sarah accomplishing that sooner than she would with a group effort.

Hadley's Hope is HUGE... the Xenomorphs have covered over the ground and know many alternate routes to get to their prey. Like Hudson said.

"Seventeen days? Hey man I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen hours! Those things are gonna come in here like they did before, and they're gonna come in here and they're gonna kill us!"

And well... he was right!

[DSkillz]

1 hour ago, RakaiThwei said:

A firing squad of twelve Colonial Marines who were better armed and better trained were turned into damn mince meat by the Xenomorphs, especially when Lt. Gorman had ordered them to withdraw armor piercing firing in there and rely on flamethrowers with suppressing fire. A fine plan, but considering that the Xenomorphs were well camoflagued in the nodes which they were resting in, and picking the Marines off quickly and one by one-- speaks VOLUMES of the terror the Xenomorphs can bring. Sarah Connor likely DOES NOT have familiarity with the colony layout of LV-426, she likely doesn't know that firing in the reactor likely would and will make the colony evaporate the size of Nebraska, and given that there was a colony population of 158 people... last I recalled, as well as one Queen and a seemingly growing number of eggs... The odds are stacked against her.

Even Ellen Ripley had irrationally, although understandably decided to take on the Hive by herself... all to rescue Newt. And she only armed herself with an M41A Pulse Rifle, and an M40 Flamethrower, and M80 Launcher Grenades and flares... was already screwed when she went full burst and used up all her ammunition on the eggs. One person cannot take on an entire Hive, and Sarah likely won't even so much as have the same equipment as the Colonial Marines do.

At best, she probably has the same level equipment as our modern military... Watch AVP-R where the national guard takes on the Xenomorphs in the open streets. It didn't end so well for them.

Oh, I don't know.

Unlike the Colonel Marines, Ripley herself, or the national guard, Connor doesn't have an incentive to head straight into the proverbial lion's den. All Sarah would really want to do is find a place to hide away and defend herself when necessary. Given her experience running from Terminators (who, IIRC, have more sophisticated methods of tracking someone down than Xenos), it wouldn't be implausible for her to figure out how to find refuge from the aliens.

Also, depending on when in her own timeline Sarah is transported from to the colony, she could at least have comparable experience dealing with weaponry overall as Ripley and as much experience dealing with Terminators and in a comparable environment as Ripley's had with Xenos.

In short, 24 hours probably in the colony shouldn't be too tough for Ms. Connor.

[RakaiThwei]

5 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

Oh, I don't know.

Unlike the Colonel Marines, Ripley herself, or the national guard, Connor doesn't have an incentive to head straight into the proverbial lion's den. All Sarah would really want to do is find a place to hide away and defend herself when necessary. Given her experience running from Terminators (who, IIRC, have more sophisticated methods of tracking someone down than Xenos), it wouldn't be implausible for her to figure out how to find refuge from the aliens.

Also, depending on when in her own timeline Sarah is transported from to the colony, she could at least have comparable experience dealing with weaponry overall as Ripley and as much experience dealing with Terminators and in a comparable environment as Ripley's had with Xenos.

In short, 24 hours probably in the colony shouldn't be too tough for Ms. Connor.

We really don't know how Sarah Connor managed to get to Hadley's Hope, let alone LV-426. If we go by Terminator logic where she was pulled from her timeline and into the future, then that's relatively bad because her clothes would burn off and whatever weapons she would have from her timeline would not be able to come with her. Terminator logic dictates that if you go forward or back in time, you have to go naked otherwise you risk being pulled apart on a molecular level as seen in Terminator Genesys when Pops the T-800 used the time displacement equipment to destroy the T-3000 John Connor, as there was inorganic matter interrupting the process. So if Sarah is pulled from her timeline via Terminator logic-- that leaves a lot of work.

She would have to find food, she would have to find clothes, she would have to find weapons. In short, she would have to scour the colony looking for these things. Remembering the movie... most especially the Director's Cut... I don't recall seeing any food in the colony, except a half eaten soggy donut and some stale coffee, and if you count the hamster stuck in it's plastic cage... there's that.

Clothes... well, there might be something in the Colonist dorms, but would Sarah know where those are located? Unlikely.

And in the off chance she does encounter ONE Xenomorph... if one of them knows, the ENTIRE Hive knows, as they share a telepathic hive mind and that means the Queen herself knows. And then they would make it a point to look for Sarah Connor.

[DSkillz]

39 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

We really don't know how Sarah Connor managed to get to Hadley's Hope, let alone LV-426. If we go by Terminator logic where she was pulled from her timeline and into the future, then that's relatively bad because her clothes would burn off and whatever weapons she would have from her timeline would not be able to come with her. Terminator logic dictates that if you go forward or back in time, you have to go naked otherwise you risk being pulled apart on a molecular level as seen in Terminator Genesys when Pops the T-800 used the time displacement equipment to destroy the T-3000 John Connor, as there was inorganic matter interrupting the process. So if Sarah is pulled from her timeline via Terminator logic-- that leaves a lot of work.

Now I'm starting to picture a younger Linda Hamilton naked ... Thank you for this.    

But yeah, there's nothing that really states that Sarah would've been transported to LV-426 via the typical Terminator time travel route. For all we know she was placed there by an interdimensional transporter, magic, or toon physics. In which case, she'd likely still have her gear. 

39 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Remembering the movie... most especially the Director's Cut... I don't recall seeing any food in the colony, except a half eaten soggy donut and some stale coffee, and if you count the hamster stuck in it's plastic cage... there's that.

There has at least some scraps to get by with on the colony. Newt did manage to survive for who knows how long before Ripley and the Marines found her after all, so we'd have to assume there was some food to be found there.

Besides, we're only talking 24 hours, so food may not be a factor here.

39 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

And in the off chance she does encounter ONE Xenomorph... if one of them knows, the ENTIRE Hive knows, as they share a telepathic hive mind and that means the Queen herself knows. And then they would make it a point to look for Sarah Connor.

If we're talking Sarah Connor by the time of Dark Fate, I'd say her survival instincts are pretty well-honed by then. She'd be pretty used to things coming out of the shadows and whatnot looking for her. Let's not also forget that the Terminators are also linked to a point via Skynet.

[C.T.]

Yeah, come on, she only has to survive 24 hours, and the xenomorphs here in Newt's words come out at night for the most part so that means she'd only have to deal with them for half the time or even less. A child survived for weeks alone, and even the regular people living there were able to hold out for some time, given the barricades and that they had alive and dead facehuggers in jars, meaning they were studying them for a while. 

[RakaiThwei]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:52 AM, DSkillz said:

Now I'm starting to picture a younger Linda Hamilton naked ... Thank you for this.    

Then watch King Kong Lives, I think that's the ONLY movie where she's actually topless.

On 11/5/2021 at 2:52 AM, DSkillz said:

 But yeah, there's nothing that really states that Sarah would've been transported to LV-426 via the typical Terminator time travel route. For all we know she was placed there by an interdimensional transporter, magic, or toon physics. In which case, she'd likely still have her gear.

At best, everything is speculation at this point. She could either be transported to LV-426 via the Time Displacement Equipment and was pulled into an entirely different timeline and universe (originally, Alien and Terminator were intended to be the same universe according to James Cameron and Bishop originally being written as a Cyberdyne model in the script but... red tape issues) or... she was transported there via interstellar travel via the Sulaco and a UD4L Cheyenne Dropship. In the case of the latter, she would have access to USCMC weaponry such as the M41A Pulse Rifle, M56 Smartgun, M40 Flamethrower, and various side arms and equipment.

But then that also brings me back to the Colonial Marines of the Sulaco, who were briefed on the situation regarding the Xenomorphs as per Ellen Ripley's report and they also had their equipment as well for a firing squad. They didn't last very long.

And those that did, well... were whittled down to just Hicks, Ellen Ripley, Newt and Bishop.

On 11/5/2021 at 2:52 AM, DSkillz said:

There has at least some scraps to get by with on the colony. Newt did manage to survive for who knows how long before Ripley and the Marines found her after all, so we'd have to assume there was some food to be found there.

 

Besides, we're only talking 24 hours, so food may not be a factor here.

I know that Newt made something of a lair somewhere in one of the hidden ducts in Hadley's Hope, but it was mostly clothes, toys and assumingly... and I have to go by memory but maybe one or two cereal boxes. But I also recall that food was extremely scarce there, and I also remember the USCMC Medic, Pvt. Cynthia Dietrich giving Newt an exam and she said that Newt suffered malnourishment but that she didn't think there was permanent damage.

So... Food resources were pretty low by the time the USCMC got there.

On 11/5/2021 at 2:52 AM, DSkillz said:

If we're talking Sarah Connor by the time of Dark Fate, I'd say her survival instincts are pretty well-honed by then. She'd be pretty used to things coming out of the shadows and whatnot looking for her. Let's not also forget that the Terminators are also linked to a point via Skynet.

Except Terminator has multiple timelines and we also have to consider that ANY of the Sarah Connor's are just as canon as the other. But general rule of thumb is that the first two films are concretely canon-- everything else is a divergent timeline.

But if we are looking at Dark Fate Sarah Connor, well... Sure, her survival instincts are honed but keep in mind, she had been hunting other Terminators sent from the Legion timeline because Karl was detecting anomalies in the timeline and sending her the coordinates. So the Terminators weren't hunting her, she was hunting them.

Sure, the Terminators are linked to a network via Skynet... unless we're talking the Dark Fate timeline where Skynet no longer exist, and Legion is the only future. Also, we need to keep in mind, Sarah has only dealt with Terminators that are sent out alone-- case in point the first T-800 and the T-1000. As far as other Sarah Connors are concerned, well... the same applies. Here, she's fighting over 158 Xenomorphs, according to the population of LV-426 which was used as breeding fodder.

22 hours ago, C.T. said:

Even the regular people living there were able to hold out for some time, given the barricades and that they had alive and dead facehuggers in jars, meaning they were studying them for a while. 

Except... they didn't.

Here's the full breakdown of the timeline of Hadley's Hope... From finding the Derelict in the Illium Range, to the Last Stand of Hadley's Hope. By June 26th, 2179... is when shit hits the fan because infestation has gotten too much. Hadley's Hope was taken over in four days but that was because the infestation needed to build up and amass numbers, but here in this scenario-- the numbers are already established and full blown. Not even twenty four hours were the remaining colonist wiped out.

 

[C.T.]

Except they did because that fails to disprove my point, since in that comic those colonists managed to hold out for several days which is the time period that comic covers, and Newt herself for weeks afterwards, and Sarah only has to go 24 hours or really 12 hours since they mostly come at night.

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, C.T. said:

Except they did because that fails to disprove my point, since in that comic those colonists managed to hold out for several days which is the time period that comic covers, and Newt herself for weeks afterwards, and Sarah only has to go 24 hours or really 12 hours since they mostly come at night.

I added another video to my previous post. Might want to check that out.

It does disprove it because by June 26th, when the infestation was full blown at that point, the Colonist didn't last twenty four hours. It took ONE DAY for the USCMC to arrive on LV-426. The colonist were already strung out by then and already dead. It only took long because the infestation needed to establish as far as the beginning stages were concerned, here in the scenario, the infestation is already established.

[Culwych1]

Hmmm, hesitating on this one but leaning towards Connor. If anyone could survive 24 hours then it is her. 24 hours being the key phrase there, because she has a number of options during that time - hiding  baracading, fleeing, fighting. As others have mentioned, firstly she has to be detected,  likely to happen during night rather than day and only if she's moving about, so the actual pure survival time is probably shorter.

Also a good question would be what does survival mean... is she still "surviving" if she has been captured and is waiting for a facehugger to impregnate her (which is a possible scenario and one she could maybe escape from).

[RakaiThwei]

1 hour ago, Culwych1 said:

Also a good question would be what does survival mean... is she still "surviving" if she has been captured and is waiting for a facehugger to impregnate her (which is a possible scenario and one she could maybe escape from).

If the Xenomorphs capture her, she's likely to be placed in the Hive walls and restrained with the resin. She'll be immobilized and latched onto by a Facehugger and impregnated. Then the chest bursting stage occurs.

So... No. That does not count as surviving.

[Culwych1]

1 hour ago, RakaiThwei said:

If the Xenomorphs capture her, she's likely to be placed in the Hive walls and restrained with the resin. She'll be immobilized and latched onto by a Facehugger and impregnated. Then the chest bursting stage occurs.

So... No. That does not count as surviving.

Makes sense.

[RiotGear]

7 hours ago, RakaiThwei said:

If the Xenomorphs capture her, she's likely to be placed in the Hive walls and restrained with the resin. She'll be immobilized and latched onto by a Facehugger and impregnated. Then the chest bursting stage occurs.

So... No. That does not count as surviving.

The gestation time for a chestburster can be hours. So in the unlikely event that Sarah gets facehuggered if it's late enough in the 24 hours. She could still be technically alive at the end. Granted harboring a deadly parasite about to rip her chest open, but alive.

[RakaiThwei]

3 hours ago, RiotGear said:

The gestation time for a chestburster can be hours. So in the unlikely event that Sarah gets facehuggered if it's late enough in the 24 hours. She could still be technically alive at the end. Granted harboring a deadly parasite about to rip her chest open, but alive.

I don't see it that way. As far as being facehugged is concerned, without any medical help you're as good dead the moment you're implanted.

[RiotGear]

2 hours ago, RakaiThwei said:

I don't see it that way. As far as being facehugged is concerned, without any medical help you're as good dead the moment you're implanted.

Yes you will die, but the question here is do you die before or after the 24 hour time limit? If you die after. You have still technically survived the 24 hours. Which is what is required for the win. In the scenario as written.

[Culwych1]

I'm of a mind that Sarah, with her survivalist skills and weapons, could avoid capture or being killed for 24 hours through hiding, running, barricades, using what is available around her and fighting back. It's a slim margin,  I'd say 54% of the time if we ran different options she'd take, but just that little bit enough to give her the win.

[RakaiThwei]

40 minutes ago, RiotGear said:

Yes you will die, but the question here is do you die before or after the 24 hour time limit? If you die after. You have still technically survived the 24 hours. Which is what is required for the win. In the scenario as written.

Let's look at the first Alien film...

Kane was implanted by the Facehugger from the Derelict and it took a few hours for the process to take. Likely several hours to take place if we go by the first movie. When the Facehugger crawled off and died, and Kane awakened-- he was experiencing hunger and expressed a desire to eat. After getting dressed and meeting everyone at the table, he had a few bites and this is when the eruptive phase began. I would venture to say that the bursting process took only a few minutes to occur. Maybe somewhere around ten to fifteen minutes-- accounting for the crew of the Nostromo to get dressed and prep a meal.

So.... that's not a lot of time for Connor to survive.

Especially if accounting that the Xenomorphs WILL use swarm tactics to get to her... And that's not the only thing, the creatures were smart enough to cut the power in the Med-Lab scene before they attempted to swarm the Colonial Marines. Remember this scene?

"They cut the power..."
"What do you mean they cut they power?! HOW COULD THEY CUT THE POWER MAN, THEY'RE ANIMALS!"

Except... Hudson was wrong. They're not just animals. They're more intelligent than what we give them credit for, and they have some concept of coordinating attacks as well.

[RiotGear]

8 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Let's look at the first Alien film...

Kane was implanted by the Facehugger from the Derelict and it took a few hours for the process to take. Likely several hours to take place if we go by the first movie. When the Facehugger crawled off and died, and Kane awakened-- he was experiencing hunger and expressed a desire to eat. After getting dressed and meeting everyone at the table, he had a few bites and this is when the eruptive phase began. I would venture to say that the bursting process took only a few minutes to occur. Maybe somewhere around ten to fifteen minutes-- accounting for the crew of the Nostromo to get dressed and prep a meal.

So.... that's not a lot of time for Connor to survive.

Especially if accounting that the Xenomorphs WILL use swarm tactics to get to her... And that's not the only thing, the creatures were smart enough to cut the power in the Med-Lab scene before they attempted to swarm the Colonial Marines. Remember this scene?

"They cut the power..."
"What do you mean they cut they power?! HOW COULD THEY CUT THE POWER MAN, THEY'RE ANIMALS!"

Except... Hudson was wrong. They're not just animals. They're more intelligent than what we give them credit for, and they have some concept of coordinating attacks as well.

So by your estimation. Face hug to chest burst is hours.

Meaning if it happens late enough in the day you could get facehugged and still run the clock out. For a technical victory.