12:3 - Dr. Facilier vs. Scar (Disney)

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 3

Dr. Facilier

Slot: The Team's Disney Fairy Tale Villain
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Dr. Facilier at this Wiki
Official Site: Disney

Scar (Disney)

Slot: The Team's Disney Fairy Tale Villain
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Scar (Disney) at this Wiki
Official Site: Disney

Battle Terrain
Disney Villains: Frame Judy Hopps

[Peypeypeypey]

Now this is an interesting one. I'll have to think more about it. Scar famously frames his own nephew, but he does so in a super un-advanced society. He is clever and conniving, but his scheme was a lot smaller than the one that Judy took down. Facilier has his Friends on the Other Side to plant evidence, is a charming smooth-talker, and has a lot of parlor tricks that may prove useful to him. I'm liking his odds

[Fox]

As the challenge is Zootopia and Scar has, to his evil credit, a track record of pulling off well executed framing... I'm leaning towards the smooth talking lion.

Having watched Lion King animated film again, recently, I am reminded that Scar is cunning and intelligent and will make good use of Zootopia's criminal underground in framing the famous officer Hopps.

[leroypowell3]

This is a good one yes. I'm liking the shadow man. I think he's actually a smoother talker than Scar who is very cunning.  However the match is to frame Hopps. That's Scar. If it were running a sucessful scam Facilier would win. I have to vote Scar.

[SSJRuss]

Scar does have the advantage here. I think Facilier relies too much on magic and I think that will be his downfall.

[Peypeypeypey]

People are way overselling Scar here. His grand plan involved like 3 moving pieces, and the lions had only the most basic society in the Lion King. Dr. Facilier's plan, on the other hand, was far more complicated and cunning, and his voodoo would make framing Judy very easy. For example, just make someone else look like her and have that person commit a bunch of crimes

[Fox]

4 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

People are way overselling Scar here. His grand plan involved like 3 moving pieces ...

You mean that his plan had exactly the number of steps needed to succeed?  Why yes, yes it did!

Generally speaking, the more 'moving pieces' you add to any plan, the higher the probability of failure. But I believe this is especially true in crime plans. Scar is doing it correctly.

[Peypeypeypey]

55 minutes ago, Fox said:

You mean that his plan had exactly the number of steps needed to succeed?  Why yes, yes it did!

Generally speaking, the more 'moving pieces' you add to any plan, the higher the probability of failure. But I believe this is especially true in crime plans. Scar is doing it correctly.

Sure, but again, his plan succeeded because the lions didn't really live in a society. Scar's plan worked because he was targeting his brother, and because there really wasn't any infrastructure to stop crime other than Mufasa himself. There are no buildings, no cameras, no police, nothing. Just animals living in the wild. It's silly to assume that because he could do the equivalent of killing one lion basically in the wild, he would be able to take down a seasoned cop

[Boratz]

Scar seemed like a master manipulator and being an animal kingdom,I think he would fit right in. Scar was able to succeed in his plan for the most part and take down a mighty lion king. Facilier relied heavily on magic and was unable to stop a couple frogs

[Pizzaguy2995]

I gotta agree with Peypey, Scar might be an animal but I think he’ll be more out of his element in Zootopia then Facilier. Scar came from a society much different then a big city with no organized police force, modern equipment like cameras and recorders, and no forensic science. If he tried to murder his brother in Zootopia a cop like Judy would find his claw prints all over the scene. And like Peypey said Dr. Facilier’s voodoo would make framing Judy very easy and with little risk at it being traced back to Dr. F.

[Boratz]

8 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

I gotta agree with Peypey, Scar might be an animal but I think he’ll be more out of his element in Zootopia then Facilier. Scar came from a society much different then a big city with no organized police force, modern equipment like cameras and recorders, and no forensic science. If he tried to murder his brother in Zootopia a cop like Judy would find his claw prints all over the scene. And like Peypey said Dr. Facilier’s voodoo would make framing Judy very easy and with little risk at it being traced back to Dr. F.

I see these arguments about modern day technology, but Dr F was also not in modern day New Orleans. The fingerprinting technology and cameras were not anywhere close. From what I saw in the movie, the animals had a distrust for Dr. F. So having an argument that Scar is out of his element because the time period does not make much sense to me. Scar was able to manipulate the hyenas (the enemies of the lions), he had a following of lions himself that proved to be loyal to him even after his death (as seen in sequel), and was able to kill his brother (who was mightier than he). Scar is intelligent and has followers. He does not necessarily even need to get his paws in ruining Judy. I could see Scar being a mob boss of sorts, whereas Dr. F would stand out in Zootopia and be distrusted by the animals, especially with his activities in the supernatural 

[Peypeypeypey]

4 hours ago, Boratz said:

I see these arguments about modern day technology, but Dr F was also not in modern day New Orleans. The fingerprinting technology and cameras were not anywhere close. From what I saw in the movie, the animals had a distrust for Dr. F. So having an argument that Scar is out of his element because the time period does not make much sense to me. Scar was able to manipulate the hyenas (the enemies of the lions), he had a following of lions himself that proved to be loyal to him even after his death (as seen in sequel), and was able to kill his brother (who was mightier than he). Scar is intelligent and has followers. He does not necessarily even need to get his paws in ruining Judy. I could see Scar being a mob boss of sorts, whereas Dr. F would stand out in Zootopia and be distrusted by the animals, especially with his activities in the supernatural 

But Dr. Facilier does have to work around semi-modern law enforcement, and his plan is far more ambitious than Scar's. He also has shadow magic that can very easily get around cameras and cops. Scar wasn't really manipulating the hyenas, they joined him willingly because they were mistreated by the lions, and as Scar himself says, they are very stupid. There is literally 1 competent person Scar really successfully tricks, and that's Mufasa, his own brother. This idea that Scar is a master manipulator is simply not at all true. He's pretty smart, sure, but his plan is able to be so simple because, again, there is no crime stopping infrastructure in Pride Rock. There is no infrastructure of any kind if Pride Rock. His plan was so simple that if there had been anyone else watching what was going on, they would have immediately pinned in on Scar, and again Dr. Facilier's magic is literally perfect for this prompt

[Boratz]

17 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

But Dr. Facilier does have to work around semi-modern law enforcement, and his plan is far more ambitious than Scar's. He also has shadow magic that can very easily get around cameras and cops. Scar wasn't really manipulating the hyenas, they joined him willingly because they were mistreated by the lions, and as Scar himself says, they are very stupid. There is literally 1 competent person Scar really successfully tricks, and that's Mufasa, his own brother. This idea that Scar is a master manipulator is simply not at all true. He's pretty smart, sure, but his plan is able to be so simple because, again, there is no crime stopping infrastructure in Pride Rock. There is no infrastructure of any kind if Pride Rock. His plan was so simple that if there had been anyone else watching what was going on, they would have immediately pinned in on Scar, and again Dr. Facilier's magic is literally perfect for this prompt

Have you actually seen The Lion King? Scar obviously manipulated the hyenas and most of the other lions. 

Early 1900s law enforcement is much different than today's. So that does not make any sort of sense trying to compare new technology to what was in the early 1900s later 1800s. To make an argument that the hyenas were dumb is also a poor argument as Dr. F had a dumb fat henchmen, and he was out witted by an idiotic prince and a waitress

[Peypeypeypey]

9 minutes ago, Boratz said:

Have you actually seen The Lion King? Scar obviously manipulated the hyenas and most of the other lions. 

Early 1900s law enforcement is much different than today's. So that does not make any sort of sense trying to compare new technology to what was in the early 1900s later 1800s. To make an argument that the hyenas were dumb is also a poor argument as Dr. F had a dumb fat henchmen, and he was out witted by an idiotic prince and a waitress

Of course I have. Like I said, his "manipulation" of the hyenas was him just saying to them "hey, the other lions are real assholes to you, let's change that." Pardon me if I don't consider that master manipulation to just be honest with a group of animals who, by his own definition, are thickskulled morons. He doesn't really manipulate the other lions in any meaningful way, either. Mufasa is dead, Simba is missing, so by law, he is the next in line to be king. 

I understand early 1900's law enforcement is different, but it's a better comparison to modern police than Scar's, which is literally none. And Dr. Facilier wasn't outwitted by the prince at all, he got cocky and Tiana destroyed his connection to his Friends, which lead to them killing him. All Disney Villains are cocky and make dumb mistakes that lead to their downfall, but Dr. Facilier has a much better path to victory here. He can go up to Judy and make a deal with her, similar to how he did with the Prince and Lawrence, and tried to do with Tiana. The only reason Tiana said no was because she knew Dr. Facilier had actual evil magic, but magic doesn't exist in Zootopia, so Judy may very well just agree to it, and which point he would basically just win right there. Framing Judy is a much easier task than Dr. Facilier's goal in his movie, and he would only need a little bit of magic to pull it off. Scar, on the other hand, relies on murder, the stupidity of those around him, and bloodline royalty for his plan to succeed, none of which would work here

EDIT

Whoever's character Dr. Facilier is, you really gotta step in here and fight for your guy lol. I've spent too much time arguing a fight that isn't mine

[Fox]

7 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

EDIT

Whoever's character Dr. Facilier is, you really gotta step in here and fight for your guy lol. I've spent too much time arguing a fight that isn't mine

I hereby create the new verb 'PizzaGuy' which means 'to strenuously argue for a character on another persons team'.

You haven't argued for another team until you have PizzaGuyed like this.

@Pizzaguy2995

[Pizzaguy2995]

4 hours ago, Fox said:

I hereby create the new verb 'PizzaGuy' which means 'to strenuously argue for a character on another persons team'.

You haven't argued for another team until you have PizzaGuyed like this.

@Pizzaguy2995

What? I was just being a true pal and having my guy Mercenaryblade’s back. I respect a CBUB member who gets Warhammer 40k lore like I do.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Dr. Facilier: 6
Scar (Disney): 8