12:3 - Mandrill vs. Angar the Screamer

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 3

Mandrill

Slot: The Team's Worst Villain
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Mandrill at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel

Angar the Screamer

Slot: The Team's Worst Villain
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Angar the Screamer at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Rodeo Drive Swindle

[Peypeypeypey]

Great category for Mandrill. I'm gonna be honest, I picked him because he was a mandrill-faced villain and I thought that was hilarious, but his super power is actually bonkers: "The Mandrill's primary mutant power is the ability to secrete an odorless pheromone capable of affecting human females, leaving them extremely submissive and open to the Mandrill's manipulations." His pheromone is so potent that the likes of Black Widow weren't able to resist it. Basically, any woman he comes in contact with is going to do almost anything he says, so he'll be able to make bank in Beverly Hills

[Fox]

16 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Great category for Mandrill. I'm gonna be honest, I picked him because he was a mandrill-faced villain and I thought that was hilarious, but his super power is actually bonkers: "The Mandrill's primary mutant power is the ability to secrete an odorless pheromone capable of affecting human females, leaving them extremely submissive and open to the Mandrill's manipulations." His pheromone is so potent that the likes of Black Widow weren't able to resist it. Basically, any woman he comes in contact with is going to do almost anything he says, so he'll be able to make bank in Beverly Hills

One might think that except that he's still a super creepy villain with an animal head. 

1. The power doesn't affect males - who will figure out something is up when their lady friends start giving all their money to creepy.

2. The power doesn't affect females with strong will, who will report a creeper with an animal head.

3. At some point Mandril has to let them go home, thus releasing them from the power, or there will be a hunt for wealthy missing ladies in Beverly Hills - and then they will report creepy.

 

Now Angar is a true-blue new age hippie type. He doesn't need creepy powers to fit in in Beverly Hills and work on getting rich. And he can actually show his face in public.

Gotta go with Angar.

[Peypeypeypey]

3 hours ago, Fox said:

One might think that except that he's still a super creepy villain with an animal head. 

1. The power doesn't affect males - who will figure out something is up when their lady friends start giving all their money to creepy.

2. The power doesn't affect females with strong will, who will report a creeper with an animal head.

3. At some point Mandril has to let them go home, thus releasing them from the power, or there will be a hunt for wealthy missing ladies in Beverly Hills - and then they will report creepy.

 

Now Angar is a true-blue new age hippie type. He doesn't need creepy powers to fit in in Beverly Hills and work on getting rich. And he can actually show his face in public.

Gotta go with Angar.

This is a terrible argument for one simple reason: he's not doing anything illegal from the perspective of law enforcement. If someone reports him, he'll just say he's having a nice time with his lady friends, and they will agree with him because his power makes them want to be around him and do as he says. He does have a creepy animal face, I agree, but that in and of itself isn't illegal, and if the cops do show up, they will have literally nothing to arrest him on. The women are affected by an undetectable pheromone that they don't know about, so from their perspective, they're just inexplicably drawn to this ape-man. He doesn't really have to do anything that's strictly speaking illegal to get away with a lot of women's money, and there would be absolutely not evidence and no way to prove that he's done anything illegal. If a woman falls for a man and gives him all her money, and then he leaves her, she can't demand her money back after the fact because he left. What the man did was shitty, but not illegal. 

So no, this argument really doesn't hold up at all

[Fox]

4 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

This is a terrible argument for one simple reason: he's not doing anything illegal from the perspective of law enforcement. If someone reports him, he'll just say he's having a nice time with his lady friends

 

What? This character would be, like, anathema to women everywhere. It's Harvey Weinstein with a baboon head.

The character literally enslaves women! I mean... that kind of thing isn't really tolerated today.

The character would be the talk of social media, and probably considered the most creepy thing on the planet. Every person on the planet would know it on sight.  There is no way this creepy thing talks it's way out of getting captured or killed. 

Angar, on the other hand, is a well read master of philosophy and a chic radical social activist.  The kind of thing Beverly Hills loves naturally, no enslavement of women required.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

3 minutes ago, Fox said:

What? This character would be, like, anathema to women everywhere. It's Harvey Weinstein with a baboon head.

The character literally enslaves women! I mean... that kind of thing isn't really tolerated today.

The character would be the talk of social media, and probably considered the most creepy thing on the planet. Every person on the planet would know it on sight.  There is no way this creepy thing talks it's way out of getting captured or killed. 

Angar, on the other hand, is a well read master of philosophy and a chic radical social activist.  The kind of thing Beverly Hills loves naturally, no enslavement of women required.

Harvey Weinstein used power to coerce women into thing. Mandrill uses pheromones to make women think they want to do his bidding. There's a massive and obvious difference. He's less like Harvey Weinstein and more like a pick-up artist really, and much like pick-up artistry, it's not illegal for him to exist and secrete a pheromone. There is absolutely no way it could be proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt that he's done something illegal. What is she going to say?

"Did this man steal from you?"

"No, I willingly gave up my possessions to him, but after he left I went into withdraw from his pheromones and realized he had swindled me out of my money!"

"So you willingly gave up your possessions?"

"Yes, but he was, like, super attractive to me at the time."

They absolutely cannot find him guilty if the women are willingly doing his bidding. If a con artist rolls into town and convinced someone to give up all their money to him, 99 times out of 100 there's absolutely no legal way to get your money back, and it's the same thing here. If this took place in the Marvel universe where the Mandrill's power was known about, then maybe they would have a leg to stand on, but in the real world? Sorry, no. From their perspective and the perspective of the law, the women were so enchanted by the Ape-man's charm, they willingly gave up their possessions, which is not illegal at all.

To address one other point, while it is his M.O. to enslave women for longer periods of time, if it's just a get-rich-quick scheme, he really doesn't have to keep the women under this thrall for that long. Just long enough for them to legally sign over their possessions to him, then he can cut them loose. No slavery, nothing sexual at all, just an Ape-Man swindling people out of money

[Fox]

1 minute ago, Peypeypeypey said:

They absolutely cannot find him guilty if the women are willingly doing his bidding.

 

Now this is just disingenuous. I've read comics with Mandrill appearances. No one is doing anything willingly in those issues. It's clear they are under the power of the pheromones.

There is no free-will when the pheromones are making them do things they would not normally do. *shudder*

 

[Peypeypeypey]

1 minute ago, Fox said:

Now this is just disingenuous. I've read comics with Mandrill appearances. No one is doing anything willingly in those issues. It's clear they are under the power of the pheromones.

There is no free-will when the pheromones are making them do things they would not normally do. *shudder*

You're right, I misspoke somewhat there. It's not that they're doing it "willingly" per se, it's that there's no legal precedent to arrest him for what he's doing, and they're being openly submissive to him. From the perspective of anyone observing, he's not doing anything illegal. To clarify though, what he is doing this obviously wrong and shouldn't be legal, but there's simply no way to realistically prosecute him for it in the real world.

Also, all of your responses leave out the fact that Mandrill is an incredibly intelligent planner and schemer. His scheme would obviously be more competent than just relying on his mutant ability, his ability would just help him a lot in planning out his schemes. 

[Fox]

9 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Also, all of your responses leave out the fact that Mandrill is an incredibly intelligent planner and schemer.

Well, he can plan all he wants to.  I maintain that there's no way this creeper that enslaves women is not publicly known and would be high priority for any law enforcement agency concerned with protection women.

Also, the women in this scenario hail from Beverly Hills - some of the most powerful and influential in the world and therefore the most watched and photographed.

All in all Mandrill has a number of disadvantages, and is also a pretty ewwww character in general - and I remember thinking that as a kid when the character would pop-up.  It's not like that power ever seemed to really work out for him.  I think it has a limited radius around him.

Backing Angar on this one. Let the voters decide!

 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

1 hour ago, Fox said:

Well, he can plan all he wants to.  I maintain that there's no way this creeper that enslaves women is not publicly known and would be high priority for any law enforcement agency concerned with protection women.

Also, the women in this scenario hail from Beverly Hills - some of the most powerful and influential in the world and therefore the most watched and photographed.

All in all Mandrill has a number of disadvantages, and is also a pretty ewwww character in general - and I remember thinking that as a kid when the character would pop-up.  It's not like that power ever seemed to really work out for him.  I think it has a limited radius around him.

Backing Angar on this one. Let the voters decide!

I mean, we'll have to agree to disagree then, but I think Mandrill does great in this challenge, and he's more than smart enough to not get caught doing so. There's absolutely 0 chance in the real world that he would get caught doing anything wrong in the eyes of the law

[Pizzaguy2995]

Good debate @Peypeypeypey and @Fox, this is gonna be one I’ll have to really think about before voting. Mandrill’s powers might allow him to make plenty of money off unsuspecting women but Angar being a true tie-dye hippie would thrive very well in a place like Beverly Hills. It’s a real tough choice.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Mandrill: 7
Angar the Screamer: 5