12:5 - Deathstroke vs. Spider-Man

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 5

Deathstroke

Slot: The Team's Scrappy Fighter
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Deathstroke at this Wiki
Official Site: DC Comics

Spider-Man

Slot: The Team's Scrappy Fighter
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Spider-Man at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Battle Terrain: Redwood Forest

[Peypeypeypey]

Ordinarily I would probably say Spider-Man could take Deathstroke, similarly to how he can take Batman 9/10 times. He's faster, his spider-sense nullifies any stealth and makes up for his lack of training, he's way stronger, etc. However, this is movie Spider-Man, as I understand it. That means that Spider-Man is still stronger, depending on the version he still has some version of Spider-Sense, but Deathstroke has taken out lots of people above his weight-class, and no version of movie Spider-Man has ever taken on someone as skilled as Deathstroke. I'll need to hear more arguments

[Twogunkid]

How are either of these scrappy underdog types?

[Fox]

17 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

How are either of these scrappy underdog types?

They have Tier 9 versions in Vs Battle Wiki. That is the criteria. The slot title does not have the word "underdog" in it.

That said, interesting fight. In either case you are dealing with a non-comics version.  Please note @Peypeypeypey that the comics version of Deathstroke is also out of bounds.

I'm calling it  Raimi Trilogy Spider-Man vs. DCAU Deathstroke, and I think that is a very even pairing, but I'm leaning Deathstroke due to his experience.

[Peypeypeypey]

26 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

How are either of these scrappy underdog types?

Most characters in this slot aren't "scrappy underdogs" by conventional definition. Many of them are outright powerhouses in their stories. They're scrappy underdogs because in the grand scheme of fictional fighters, they're among the weakest

[Pizzaguy2995]

Here’s something else to consider everyone, the Spidey sense of Tobey’s Spider-Man is pretty wonky and inconsistent compared to the comics version. In the first clip he’s blindsided from behind by Goblin without any warning. 

And in the second clip his spidey sense failed him several times, namely at the very beginning when GG first wrapped him and hauled him into the woods without any sort of warning. Then once in the woods the sense failed to warn him about the bomb Gobby threw until it was literally right in front of his face! Now in the ensuing beat down you could argue that he was too stunned by the bomb to be expected to properly defend himself anyways, however at 1:14 he’s able to tangle Green Goblin up and use the few seconds to catch his breath and get his bearings. So you’d think at this point he’d take back control of the fight and yet the second he gets too close Gobby blindsides him again with a kick to the face! Where was his spidey sense during these instances?

So yeah, Tobey Maguire’s spidey sense is very unreliable and not nearly as effective as the comics Spider-Man, so I really doubt it’ll help him out against Deathstroke. You know, the guy who consistently keeps up with and tags Kid Flash (Wally and Bart).

[Fox]

1 hour ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

So yeah, Tobey Maguire’s spidey sense is very unreliable and not nearly as effective as the comics Spider-Man, so I really doubt it’ll help him out against Deathstroke. You know, the guy who consistently keeps up with and tags Kid Flash (Wally and Bart).

Except you seem to be citing the Comics Deathstroke version, which is out of bounds.  You'll need to come up with feats for a Tier 9 version of Deathstroke - like from the DC movies or something.

[Magnamax]

I think environment favors Spider-Man very heavily. Trees make him a lot more mobile and able to keep swinging in a fight like this. He can bit and run and keep Deathstroke off-balance. Leaning Spider-Man for that reason. Admittedly, I don’t have a great frame of reference for non comics Deathstroke. I remember the Teen Titans cartoon had him as a pretty formidable opponent.

[comic_book_fan]

10 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Here’s something else to consider everyone, the Spidey sense of Tobey’s Spider-Man is pretty wonky and inconsistent compared to the comics version. In the first clip he’s blindsided from behind by Goblin without any warning. 

 

that wasn't showing goblin  attacking him without warning he was just midair and mid motion and focused on saving marry jane  and he was new to his powers this was all from the first movie he had just gotten them  he was way better with them in the 2nd and third movies 

10 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

And in the second clip his spidey sense failed him several times, namely at the very beginning when GG first wrapped him and hauled him into the woods without any sort of warning. Then once in the woods the sense failed to warn him about the bomb Gobby threw until it was literally right in front of his face! Now in the ensuing beat down you could argue that he was too stunned by the bomb to be expected to properly defend himself anyways, however at 1:14 he’s able to tangle Green Goblin up and use the few seconds to catch his breath and get his bearings. So you’d think at this point he’d take back control of the fight and yet the second he gets too close Gobby blindsides him again with a kick to the face! Where was his spidey sense during these instances?

again his arms were tied he just got done saving marry jane and a bunch of kids this was not his spider sense failing it was him being in a spot where he couldn't dodge  both the fly by and the bomb were right in his face he didn't need his spidersense  he saw them coming was just in a spot  where  he couldn't do much to avoid them 

So yeah, Tobey Maguire’s spidey sense is very unreliable and not nearly as effective as the comics Spider-Man, so I really doubt it’ll help him out against Deathstroke. You know, the guy who consistently keeps up with and tags Kid Flash (Wally and Bart).

it's pretty reliable   see explanation for 1 and 2 

 

[Culwych1]

If we are talking about Green Arrow's Deathstroke (which I think fits the category) vs Raimi Spiderman, then I see DS winning for most of it because of his jungle knowledge, but Spiderman pulls off a last minute switcheroo and uses the trees and environment to immobilise DS and take the win.

[Pizzaguy2995]

11 hours ago, Fox said:

Except you seem to be citing the Comics Deathstroke version, which is out of bounds.  You'll need to come up with feats for a Tier 9 version of Deathstroke - like from the DC movies or something.

Wait what? When I drafted Deathstroke I was under the impression that I got the comic book version. If it’s absolutely necessary I guess I could use either the YJ cartoon version or the Arrow tv series version, but that wasn’t what I was led to believe at the beginning.

I really wished you would have told me sooner.

[Pizzaguy2995]

4 hours ago, comic_book_fan said:

that wasn't showing goblin  attacking him without warning he was just midair and mid motion and focused on saving marry jane  and he was new to his powers this was all from the first movie he had just gotten them  he was way better with them in the 2nd and third movies

4 hours ago, comic_book_fan said:

again his arms were tied he just got done saving marry jane and a bunch of kids this was not his spider sense failing it was him being in a spot where he couldn't dodge  both the fly by and the bomb were right in his face he didn't need his spidersense  he saw them coming was just in a spot  where  he couldn't do much to avoid them 

Okay fair enough, I could buy that since he had just gotten his powers that maybe we can excuse his inconsistent reaction times for movie 1. But here’s the thing, in 2 & 3 there also instances where his spidey sense just outright failed him in the middle of combat!

In this clip we see him clearly on his guard and knowing that Doc Ock is only a few feet from him and could spot him at any moment. And yet when he stopped to chat with MJ the Doc yeeted a metal bar at him and he clearly didn’t move until after it landed! If that bar was just a few inches to the left he’d be dead. Also after fighting with Ock for a bit and freeing MJ he was completely blindsided  from behind by Doc Ock! Why didn’t his spidey sense warn him of either attack? He knew very well that Doc Ock was dangerous and wouldn’t stay down after one or two hits.

@2:00 he was blindsided this time by Venom while trying to get to MJ. And don’t tell me he couldn’t dodge in the mid air, just prior to that moment we clearly saw him dodging and weaving Sandman’s punches despite being in mid air then. And @2:18 while solidly on the ground Venom again surprises him by webbing him from behind and holding him down so that Sandman can beat him to death, and would’ve had Harry not saved his spider ass. Again where was his spidey sense at either of those moments?

Look there’s only so many times we can use the ole “he was surprised” or “he didn’t expect the attack” as an excuse. In the below clip he also clearly wasn’t expecting Doc Ock to chunk a car at him while he was having lunch and talking with MJ, yet it was able to warn him with enough time for him grab MJ and dodge the car plus dozens of shrapnel. Why was the spidey sense able to warn him of that attack but it wasn’t able to warn him of the other attacks I listed?

 

[Pizzaguy2995]

@comic_book_fan

Also please ignore my comic feats of Deathstroke tagging Kid Flash. I’m apparently just using the CW Deathstroke for this fight. But I should remind everyone that Arrowverse Slade scales to Oliver who was able to fight evenly with and briefly subdue CW Flash, granted it took a lot of tricks and plenty of luck.

 

[comic_book_fan]

14 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Okay fair enough, I could buy that since he had just gotten his powers that maybe we can excuse his inconsistent reaction times for movie 1. But here’s the thing, in 2 & 3 there also instances where his spidey sense just outright failed him in the middle of combat!

In this clip we see him clearly on his guard and knowing that Doc Ock is only a few feet from him and could spot him at any moment. And yet when he stopped to chat with MJ the Doc yeeted a metal bar at him and he clearly didn’t move until after it landed!

his spidersense only reacts to things that he needs to react to that metal bar was never intended to hit him he didn't have to dodge it there for no danger 

 

If that bar was just a few inches to the left he’d be dead.

no because his sense would have alerted him and he would likely dodge it

Also after fighting with Ock for a bit and freeing MJ he was completely blindsided  from behind by Doc Ock! Why didn’t his spidey sense warn him of either attack? He knew very well that Doc Ock was dangerous and wouldn’t stay down after one or two hits.

because he knew it was coming already he was just to concerned with mj's safety  to worry  about dodging 

@2:00 he was blindsided this time by Venom while trying to get to MJ.

again he is focused on marry jane  it's not that he can't avoid if well alert  these are all instances where he is more worried about someone's well being than his  

And don’t tell me he couldn’t dodge in the mid air, just prior to that moment we clearly saw him dodging and weaving Sandman’s punches despite being in mid air then. And @2:18 while solidly on the ground Venom again surprises him by webbing him from behind and holding him down so that Sandman can beat him to death, and would’ve had Harry not saved his spider ass. Again where was his spidey sense at either of those moments?

again his focus wasn't on fighting   it was remove mj from danger  and again fighting multiple opponents  with different range of abilities than slade and venom being much quicker while trying to save lives in this setting he just has slade to worry about and slade has noone to use against him  

Look there’s only so many times we can use the ole “he was surprised” or “he didn’t expect the attack” as an excuse. In the below clip he also clearly wasn’t expecting Doc Ock to chunk a car at him while he was having lunch and talking with MJ, yet it was able to warn him with enough time for him grab MJ and dodge the car plus dozens of shrapnel. Why was the spidey sense able to warn him of that attack but it wasn’t able to warn him of the other attacks I listed?

because this was literally the only  attack that would have harmed him and he didn't know was coming my argument isn't that he is surprised my argument is he worries about others  more than himself and gets distracted while others are in danger but if you noticed the brief moments of one on one he reacts much better to attacks and and typically  does better  he gets tagged alot more when others are in danger 

 

 

[Pizzaguy2995]

1 hour ago, comic_book_fan said:

again his focus wasn't on fighting   it was remove mj from danger  and again fighting multiple opponents  with different range of abilities than slade and venom being much quicker while trying to save lives in this setting he just has slade to worry about and slade has noone to use against him  

1 hour ago, comic_book_fan said:

because this was literally the only  attack that would have harmed him and he didn't know was coming my argument isn't that he is surprised my argument is he worries about others  more than himself and gets distracted while others are in danger but if you noticed the brief moments of one on one he reacts much better to attacks and and typically  does better  he gets tagged alot more when others are in danger

Okay Mr. Smarty Pants, but what about his fights with New Goblin (Harry Osborn)? In both fights no one was endanger but him so he had no reason to be distracted or handicapped, yet once again his spidey sense failed to warn of incoming attacks. 

In the opening scene he was taken completely by surprise by Harry’s opening attack, why did it fail to work here like it worked when Ock launched the car at him and MJ? Also at 1:15 while he was able to dodge Harry’s first attack in mid air, all the ensuring attacks landed perfectly and knocked him around multiple times. 

And in the other fight between him and Harry why didn’t his spidey sense warn him about Harry’s blade until it was two inches into his stomach?

Look my point is that for whatever reason Tobey’s spidey sense just isn’t completely accurate or reliable. Call it inexperience, distractions, or being too mad to think clearly the main point is undeniable: his spidey sense is too inconsistent and prone to fail in the middle of combat to be considered a main reason why he’ll win.

Since you’ve probably already seen my Arrow taking down Flash feat I think I’ll also add these feats of Slade just to prove without a doubt that he’s Oliver’s equal, as well as providing some additional feats for him.

 

[comic_book_fan]

27 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Okay Mr. Smarty Pants, but what about his fights with New Goblin (Harry Osborn)? In both fights no one was endanger but him so he had no reason to be distracted or handicapped, yet once again his spidey sense failed to warn of incoming attacks. 

In the opening scene he was taken completely by surprise by Harry’s opening attack, why did it fail to work here like it worked when Ock launched the car at him and

this was actually a failing  and was a really funny and cool scene but iam not sure why it didn't work here lol other than the mood of the scene being way funnier that it didn't   but you got me here still works most of the time 

 

MJ? Also at 1:15 while he was able to dodge Harry’s first attack in mid air, all the ensuring attacks landed perfectly and knocked him around multiple times. 

he is fighting someone who is almost as strong and as fast as him and he is trying to hold back he is going to get tagged  on occasion 

And in the other fight between him and Harry why didn’t his spidey sense warn him about Harry’s blade until it was two inches into his stomach?

be cause his power in the movie doesn't warn him about hidden   weapons it warns him of sneak attacks or or impending danger he already knew harry was attacking him he just didn't know he had  a knife 

Look my point is that for whatever reason Tobey’s spidey sense just isn’t completely accurate or reliable. Call it inexperience, distractions, or being too mad to think clearly the main point is undeniable: his spidey sense is too inconsistent and prone to fail in the middle of combat to be considered a main reason why he’ll win.

works good enough to be a major factor 

Since you’ve probably already seen my Arrow taking down Flash feat I think I’ll also add these feats of Slade just to prove without a doubt that he’s Oliver’s equal, as well as providing some additional feats for him.

 

he has oliver beat in speed and strength while being a match for him in skill but even live action spidey greatly surpasses slade in speed and strength  and his spidersense would do enough  in warning him of traps  or environmental threats  and his un ending web gives him a effective range weapon  that  can't be taken away from him 

[DSkillz]

7 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

If it’s absolutely necessary I guess I could use either the YJ cartoon version or the Arrow tv series version, but that wasn’t what I was led to believe at the beginning.

I really wished you would have told me sooner.

To be real, the slot mentioned up to Tier 9-A from the start.

Besides, there are several versions of Deathstroke at 9-A. Besides Young Justice and the Arrowverse, there's also the DC animated films and Arkham series to go by.

Just like besides the Raimi films' Spidey, there's also the Amazing Spider-Man films and Into the Spider-Verse, @comic_book_fan.

Also, why not cite several versions of a character within a match, as long as you mention each version separately and don't combine and conflate each versions' feats? That's what I would do, anyway.

[Pizzaguy2995]

23 hours ago, DSkillz said:

Besides, there are several versions of Deathstroke at 9-A. Besides Young Justice and the Arrowverse, there's also the DC animated films and Arkham series to go by.

Just like besides the Raimi films' Spidey, there's also the Amazing Spider-Man films and Into the Spider-Verse, @comic_book_fan.

Also, why not cite several versions of a character within a match, as long as you mention each version separately and don't combine and conflate each versions' feats? That's what I would do, anyway.

Nah, I prefer just picking one version of the character and sticking with that one. It would honestly feel like cheating if I use multiple different iterations of DS while @comic_book_fan only uses one.

[Pizzaguy2995]

@comic_book_fan

Here’s my final point of this match: my guy Slade has the advantage in terrain, experience, and in scaling to characters who have taken down far more powerful meta humans.

Tobey’s Spider-Man only ever did his fighting in New York City, so he’ll really be out of his element fighting in the wilderness, there’s a huge chance he’ll make rookie mistakes like trying to web swing from a tree branch that won’t hold his weight and send him crashing to the ground. Deathstroke has plenty experience fighting in the jungles of Lian Yu so he’ll be right at home here, plus his guns and explosives will be much better at getting at his opponent, while there’s a big chance that Spidey’s webbing will get constantly caught up in the dense foliage of the forest.

Deathstroke also has far greater combat experience then Tobey’s Spider-Man, more specifically at planning ambushes and figuring out how to surprise and demoralize his opponents. As I’ve previously mentioned this Spider-Man’s spidey sense is really inconsistent and prone to failing so it’s highly probable that it won’t be able to warn Peter of Slade’s traps until it’s far too late. Heck whose to say that Slade won’t be able to try something like what Gobby did during the first movie: pretend to be a harmless victim then blast Spidey when he’s not expecting it?

Finally, while Spidey will undoubtedly have a speed advantage going into this, as I previously shown Slade scales to Oliver, who was able to go Mano e Mano with a bloodlusted Flash and even subdue him for a bit. So if Ollie can tag Flash then there’s no reason to think Deathstroke can’t tag Spidey. Plus Slade’s durability and healing factor will allow him to hang with Tobey until his superior tactics, combat skills, and lethal weapons allow him the opportunity to take the web head out.  

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Deathstroke: 4
Spider-Man: 11