12:6 - Mirage vs. Gaston

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 6

Mirage

Slot: The Team's Disney Fairy Tale Villain
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Mirage at this Wiki
Official Site: Disney

Gaston

Slot: The Team's Disney Fairy Tale Villain
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Gaston at this Wiki
Official Site: Disney

Battle Terrain
Disney Villains: Scare away Scooby and the gang

[Mercenaryblade]

Fred and Gaston would just get into a manly competition.

Mirage would whip up some nasty spells for them. She'd also trigger Zombie Island PTSD from their encounter with cat people.  

[Twogunkid]

I feel Mirage draws them deeper into the investigation, Gaston creeps out Velma and Daphney and they end up leaving because of that.

[Peypeypeypey]

Interesting. Gaston doesn't really "scare" people. He's charismatic and outgoing, and loves being the center of attention. If the challenge is read literally, Gaston doesn't do well

[leroypowell3]

I think Gaston would make a great Scooby Doo villain. He knows how to make a plan get people to follow him. And he would  get away with it if it wasn't for those nosy kids and their maingy dog.

[DSkillz]

Not a good pull for Gaston. He's more likely to try to impress Daphne and Velma with his physique to feed his own ego.

Meanwhile, Mirage has more tools to scare off Mystery, Inc. in the long run, if she's doesn't just outright try to obliterate them out of annoyance.

[RiotGear]

Mirage may be a monster of sorts with magic.

On the surface though that is the kinda thing Mystery Inc. has dealt with numerous times and kept going.

Gaston on the other hand. Preys on the fears and insecurities of people.

Whip groups in to fear and panic. Is actually kind of his shtick.

Especially with a promise to Mystery Inc that he will solve the case himself.

It would be easy enough for them to indulge the fear he's already implanted through rhetoric, lies embellishments etc.

Basically do what he did with village in regards to the Beast, but in the end tell them to run, not follow him.

[Fox]

Mystery Inc. is notoriously difficult to scare off a case. You can reference any of the various animated series going back to the 70's and the movies and count on less than one hand the number of things that have scared them off a case.

I don't think either one of these characters can literally scare the team off the case. 

However, I do think either one of them could misdirect Mystery Inc. off the case. Or, make them think there is no case. I'm liking Gaston's chances here since he's got charisma and a normal, not mysterious approach.  If Mirage tries to use illusions she's just going to intrigue Mystery Inc. and suck them into investigating.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

I don't understand why people keep saying that Gaston is some kind of good manipulator. The town he manipulated were self-admittedly anti-reading morons. They were very easily manipulated because they're just not smart at all and they really had no leader or intelligent member among them. A person with a single brain cell would see right through Gaston, as Belle does

[Mercenaryblade]

2 hours ago, Fox said:

Mystery Inc. is notoriously difficult to scare off a case. You can reference any of the various animated series going back to the 70's and the movies and count on less than one hand the number of things that have scared them off a case.

I don't think either one of these characters can literally scare the team off the case. 

However, I do think either one of them could misdirect Mystery Inc. off the case. Or, make them think there is no case. I'm liking Gaston's chances here since he's got charisma and a normal, not mysterious approach.  If Mirage tries to use illusions she's just going to intrigue Mystery Inc. and suck them into investigating.

 

I used the same argument with that tamatoa the giant crab would just lure them into investigating deeper. 

[Mercenaryblade]

46 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I don't understand why people keep saying that Gaston is some kind of good manipulator. The town he manipulated were self-admittedly anti-reading morons. They were very easily manipulated because they're just not smart at all and they really had no leader or intelligent member among them. A person with a single brain cell would see right through Gaston, as Belle does

Yeah the comments would make you think he's Lex Luthor or something. He's just a stereotypical buff jerk.

[RiotGear]

1 hour ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I don't understand why people keep saying that Gaston is some kind of good manipulator. The town he manipulated were self-admittedly anti-reading morons. They were very easily manipulated because they're just not smart at all and they really had no leader or intelligent member among them. A person with a single brain cell would see right through Gaston, as Belle does

Except the town wasn't anti-reading. They may not have read with the fervor that Belle did, but the town had a book store. That managed to stay in business and we know Belle wasn't buying book. 

The shops in town had written signage. The population could clearly count. They exchanged money. They graded Gaston expectorating. Had well developed vocabularies. They played chess recreationally. Etc.

These were not uneducated bumpkins. Regardless of what the angsty teen that was Belle said.

It was a village of craftsmen and trades people with a bustling town center.

Not dirt farms and a mud church.

[Peypeypeypey]

5 hours ago, RiotGear said:

Except the town wasn't anti-reading. They may not have read with the fervor that Belle did, but the town had a book store. That managed to stay in business and we know Belle wasn't buying book. 

The shops in town had written signage. The population could clearly count. They exchanged money. They graded Gaston expectorating. Had well developed vocabularies. They played chess recreationally. Etc.

These were not uneducated bumpkins. Regardless of what the angsty teen that was Belle said.

It was a village of craftsmen and trades people with a bustling town center.

Not dirt farms and a mud church.

I mean, none of what you said is really evidence that the vast majority of the townspeople aren't uneducated morons. I'm sorry, but reading signs isn't exactly a sign of great intelligence. There are obviously some talented craftsmen in the town, but that alone doesn't mean anything. Talented does not mean smart. And you're really grasping at straws there at the end of that list. Exchanging money? Something humans have done since 650 BCE? That's hardly a sign of intelligence. Chess is a game a toddler can learn. I learned it when I was a toddler, and I'm not exactly a super genius. Grading expectorating? There's literally nothing intelligent about that, especially because they all just give Gaston really high grades. The point of the movie is that they were simple folk. Little people living in a little town. That's one of the first lines of the movie and it's reinforced several times

[Fox]

6 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I don't understand why people keep saying that Gaston is some kind of good manipulator.

He manipulated Belle and manipulated her father right into the mad house. He manipulated the whole town like a virtuoso.

See, I'm on the other end of the scale and don't understand why people don't see his abilities.

[Peypeypeypey]

9 minutes ago, Fox said:

He manipulated Belle and manipulated her father right into the mad house. He manipulated the whole town like a virtuoso.

See, I'm on the other end of the scale and don't understand why people don't see his abilities.

Belle's father is a brilliant inventor, but he's also socially a pariah. I don't even remember Gaston manipulating him specifically. I remember him manipulating other people to say he's crazy. When did Gaston manipulate Belle? I don't remember that

[Fox]

5 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Belle's father is a brilliant inventor, but he's also socially a pariah. I don't even remember Gaston manipulating him specifically. I remember him manipulating other people to say he's crazy. When did Gaston manipulate Belle? I don't remember that

Gaston manipulates Belle via her father.  It's pretty straightforward in the script, and yes she escapes which is all well and good, but now I think you are just being intentionally obtuse. I'm done in this one.

[Peypeypeypey]

9 minutes ago, Fox said:

Gaston manipulates Belle via her father.  It's pretty straightforward in the script, and yes she escapes which is all well and good, but now I think you are just being intentionally obtuse. I'm done in this one.

How was I being intentionally obtuse? I asked how he successfully manipulated her because I don't remember him doing so in the movie, which I haven't seen in years, and no summary of the movie online implies that he successfully manipulated her. That's not being intentionally obtuse

[Peypeypeypey]

54 minutes ago, Fox said:

Gaston manipulates Belle via her father.  It's pretty straightforward in the script, and yes she escapes which is all well and good, but now I think you are just being intentionally obtuse. I'm done in this one.

I can only assume you're talking about when Gaston threatens to have Belle's father institutionalized if she doesn't marry him, and the reason why I didn't think of that earlier is because it's simply not an example of Gaston manipulating Belle or Maurice at all. He worked with the sadistic owner of the asylum to get Maurice institutionalized, and Belle immediately sees through what Gaston is doing and tells him no, then finds another way to get her father out. So it's just lying to say he manipulated either of them

[RiotGear]

1 hour ago, Peypeypeypey said:

 Little people living in a little town. That's one of the first lines of the movie and it's reinforced several times

Are you basing your entire position on the relative intelligence of the towns population on the opinion of one angsty teenager? 

If not what is your evidence that the town is full of "morons"?  

[Fox]

43 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

So it's just lying to say he manipulated either of them

So now people who don't agree with you about a movie that you stated you haven't seen in years and don't remember are liars?

wow.

 

[Peypeypeypey]

4 minutes ago, Fox said:

So now people who don't agree with you about a movie that you stated you haven't seen in years and don't remember are liars?

wow.

 

In the same way it's intentionally obtuse to ask for clarification about a claim you made I suppose

[Magnamax]

I’ve always assumed Gaston is essentially a parody of most fairy tale heroes. He’s big, strong, and “charismatic,” but he doesn’t really use a lot of planning for much of his schemes. Basically, he gets your stereotypical “angry mob” rolling and bullies someone the town already thinks is crazy. He’s clearly placed as a hometown hero jock type. I think he’s closer to the kind of people Mystery Inc. busts on a regular basis: bitter, popular people who try to manipulate basic fears. I think Velma sees through him quickly. I don’t necessarily see the scenario where Gasto  manipulates them but maybe someone arguing for him can articulate that. 

 

On the flip, I had to research Mirage, but being able to manipulate dreams, illusions, etc seems very strong. I think being faced with an actual supernatural being will maybe throw them off as well, if someone could comment more on Mirage then I’ll be able to better judge her.

[Mercenaryblade]

2 hours ago, Magnamax said:

I’ve always assumed Gaston is essentially a parody of most fairy tale heroes. He’s big, strong, and “charismatic,” but he doesn’t really use a lot of planning for much of his schemes. Basically, he gets your stereotypical “angry mob” rolling and bullies someone the town already thinks is crazy. He’s clearly placed as a hometown hero jock type. I think he’s closer to the kind of people Mystery Inc. busts on a regular basis: bitter, popular people who try to manipulate basic fears. I think Velma sees through him quickly. I don’t necessarily see the scenario where Gasto  manipulates them but maybe someone arguing for him can articulate that. 

 

On the flip, I had to research Mirage, but being able to manipulate dreams, illusions, etc seems very strong. I think being faced with an actual supernatural being will maybe throw them off as well, if someone could comment more on Mirage then I’ll be able to better judge her.

She once turned Jasmine into a cobra like creature. 

She turned kids into monsters of their own free will. 

 

 

[RiotGear]

Besides using manipulation and preying on there fears. 

Gaston maybe able to pulls this off in a more straight forward, but rarely seen in Scooby Doo, way that is threw good old fashion fear and intimidation. 

Either by himself as giant jacked power house armed to the teeth. 

Or by inciting an angry armed mob to run them off. Use the locals in the town where the case is if need be. 

It shouldn't be hard to paint Mystery Inc. as a bunch of antisocial, druggie, conspiracy nut, occultist. Who are a danger to the local youths.

[Boratz]

Looking at the arguments and see the characters, I do think the mysteries of Mirage would lure the Mystery Inc Gang into wanting to investigate her more. 

Gaston was able to manipulate different individuals in his town, and I know there are some that either say that the town were uncivilized idiots or whatever point was trying to he made, but I disagree. While not a modern society, they were still people that he was able to manipulate and use for his own gain. 

 

I'm leaning more towards Gaston on this one