12:15 - Beta Ray Bill vs. Doomsday

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 15

Beta Ray Bill

Slot: The Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 2
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Beta Ray Bill at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Doomsday

Slot: The Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 2
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Doomsday at this Wiki
Official Site: DC Comics

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Mount Doom

[Pizzaguy2995]

Doomsday slaughters! Let me once again remind y’all of just who the Thor wannabe is dealing with:

Here’s him killing (sorta, it’s complicated) the Man of Steel himself Supes.

Team busting the rest of the Justice League.

And mauling Darkseid.

Sorry Beta Ray Bill, but your in for a world of pain.

 

 

[Magnamax]

“Thor Wannabe” is incredibly misleading, given that BRB beat Thor without using Stormbreaker.

 

Brb is strong enough to rank shots from Galactus and crack his armor, so nothing Doomsday throws is going to immediately overwhelm him.

Brb also has a much better toolbox of abilities to deal with Doomsday than someone like Superman. He can probably just BFR Doomsday with a portal and more than has the capability of just busting the planet if it comes to that. Given this is more vanilla Doomsday, he’s more beatable.

 

BRB should have advantages in mobility as well, flight is usually a good advantage against Doomsday, plus BRB should have speed and advantages with ranged attacks.

 

BRB has more wincons here. He can take this.

[Magnamax]

Summing up my main arguments:

-BRB could absolutely beat Superman so the Death of Superman feat doesn't really help Doomsday here.

-Doomsday is part Kryptonian, in the same sense that Superman doesn't have resistance to magic, neither does Doomsday. Given that BRB is dishing out magic damage, that will be a huge factor in this fight. 

-Doomsday doesn't have an answer for just being teleported out of the fight or BRB just busting Middle-Earth.

-The Darkseid feat is weird.  Darkseid forgets he has so many abilities and possibilities at this disposal and just tries to outpunch him, the Hunter/Prey series represents a complete anomaly for Doomsday as a character. 

-Flight is hard for Doomsday to deal with. Again, BRB beat Thor without the help of any Asgardian magic. BRB has a power output similar to the Silver Surfer, so blowing him out with magic and lightning is on the table.

-Doomsday has one real wincon, while BRB has several. BRB wins 7/10 matchups.

[Twogunkid]

4 hours ago, Magnamax said:

 

-BRB could absolutely beat Superman so the Death of Superman feat doesn't really help Doomsday here.

 

Why do you open with your absolute weakest argument? That is opening a whole nother can of worms.

[Pizzaguy2995]

15 hours ago, Magnamax said:

 

“Thor Wannabe” is incredibly misleading, given that BRB beat Thor without using Stormbreaker.

 

Uh no. Your statement is incredibly misleading, specifically saying that BRB “beat” Thor. I assume your referring to their first encounter where BRB fought Thor evenly for a few minutes before the God of Thunder lost Mjolnir and transformed back into his Donald Blake form. (At that time in the comics if Thor was separated from his hammer for 60 seconds he lost his powers as Donald) BRB then knocked the very weak Blake out, stole his hammer and that’s how BRB got his powers. Also it was pretty clear Thor was about to win before he lost his God form, even Bill seemed to realize that outright saying that Thor will have to kill cause he won’t yield to him.

15 hours ago, Magnamax said:

Brb is strong enough to rank shots from Galactus and crack his armor, so nothing Doomsday throws is going to immediately overwhelm him.

Brb also has a much better toolbox of abilities to deal with Doomsday than someone like Superman. He can probably just BFR Doomsday with a portal and more than has the capability of just busting the planet if it comes to that. Given this is more vanilla Doomsday, he’s more beatable.

Yeah and Bill’s also got his ass beat by Hulk and Ragnarok (Thor’s clone from Civil War) who Doomsday is far superior to by scaling to Superman. The Man of Steel has canonically beaten Hulk and the real Thor before, so Doomsday is clearly above Hulk and Ragnarok. BRB cracking Galactus’ armor I think is a bit overrated, mostly cause Galactus seemed more annoyed then anything and easily battered BRB away afterwards. So I don’t think that feat is as impressive as your making it out to be.

Also both Darkseid and the Green Lantern Guardian had flight and ranged attacks and it didn’t do them any good against Doomy. Heck the Guardian’s final attack ripped a hole in space, killed the Guardian, and blasted Doomsday to the other side of the galaxy and he still survived it! And Darkseid blasted Doomy with his Omega Beam and guess what, Doomy survived that too!

 

If the Omega Beam couldn’t kill Doomy, what hope does Bill have?

8 hours ago, Magnamax said:

Summing up my main arguments:

-BRB could absolutely beat Superman so the Death of Superman feat doesn't really help Doomsday here.

-Doomsday is part Kryptonian, in the same sense that Superman doesn't have resistance to magic, neither does Doomsday. Given that BRB is dishing out magic damage, that will be a huge factor in this fight. 

-Doomsday doesn't have an answer for just being teleported out of the fight or BRB just busting Middle-Earth.

-The Darkseid feat is weird.  Darkseid forgets he has so many abilities and possibilities at this disposal and just tries to outpunch him, the Hunter/Prey series represents a complete anomaly for Doomsday as a character. 

-Flight is hard for Doomsday to deal with. Again, BRB beat Thor without the help of any Asgardian magic. BRB has a power output similar to the Silver Surfer, so blowing him out with magic and lightning is on the table.

-Doomsday has one real wincon, while BRB has several. BRB wins 7/10 matchups.

-There is no proof that BRB could ever beat Supes, especially considering BRB couldn’t even beat Hulk or Ragnarok.

-Correction, Doomsday was born on Krypton, but he’s not Kryptonian and thusly does not share Supes weakness to magic. Just like how he’s not weak to kryptonite.

-Being teleported away is not a win condition, also Doomy survived an attack that blew him halfway cross the galaxy so  busting Middle-Earth won’t do jack to him.

-Again Darkseid tried his Omega Beam first and Doomy tanked it, so no he didn’t just forget how to use his powers Doomy beat him fairly. And if anything Beta Ray Bill cracking Galactus’ armor is the anomaly considering he’s usually portrayed as weaker then Thor or Hulk.

-How is flight hard for Doomsday to deal with? Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Supes and countless other Leaguers had flight and Doomy still bodied all of them. 

-Yeah and it’s a real hard wincon to counter. Supes, Wonder Woman, Darkseid, even Gog, another Superman killer, couldn’t survive it. Now do you honestly believe Beta Ray Bill is stronger then Superman and/or Darkseid? And if yes then your gonna have to show feats that prove that, cause so far you haven’t showed any proof.

[Twogunkid]

Clarifying JLA/Avengers and Supes win over Thor is canon, but Marvel vs DC and his win over Hulk is not.

[Magnamax]

12 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Uh no. Your statement is incredibly misleading, specifically saying that BRB “beat” Thor. I assume your referring to their first encounter where BRB fought Thor evenly for a few minutes before the God of Thunder lost Mjolnir and transformed back into his Donald Blake form. (At that time in the comics if Thor was separated from his hammer for 60 seconds he lost his powers as Donald) BRB then knocked the very weak Blake out, stole his hammer and that’s how BRB got his powers. Also it was pretty clear Thor was about to win before he lost his God form, even Bill seemed to realize that outright saying that Thor will have to kill cause he won’t yield to him.

Yeah and Bill’s also got his ass beat by Hulk and Ragnarok (Thor’s clone from Civil War) who Doomsday is far superior to by scaling to Superman. The Man of Steel has canonically beaten Hulk and the real Thor before, so Doomsday is clearly above Hulk and Ragnarok. BRB cracking Galactus’ armor I think is a bit overrated, mostly cause Galactus seemed more annoyed then anything and easily battered BRB away afterwards. So I don’t think that feat is as impressive as your making it out to be.

Also both Darkseid and the Green Lantern Guardian had flight and ranged attacks and it didn’t do them any good against Doomy. Heck the Guardian’s final attack ripped a hole in space, killed the Guardian, and blasted Doomsday to the other side of the galaxy and he still survived it! And Darkseid blasted Doomy with his Omega Beam and guess what, Doomy survived that too!

 

If the Omega Beam couldn’t kill Doomy, what hope does Bill have?

-There is no proof that BRB could ever beat Supes, especially considering BRB couldn’t even beat Hulk or Ragnarok.

-Correction, Doomsday was born on Krypton, but he’s not Kryptonian and thusly does not share Supes weakness to magic. Just like how he’s not weak to kryptonite.

-Being teleported away is not a win condition, also Doomy survived an attack that blew him halfway cross the galaxy so  busting Middle-Earth won’t do jack to him.

-Again Darkseid tried his Omega Beam first and Doomy tanked it, so no he didn’t just forget how to use his powers Doomy beat him fairly. And if anything Beta Ray Bill cracking Galactus’ armor is the anomaly considering he’s usually portrayed as weaker then Thor or Hulk.

-How is flight hard for Doomsday to deal with? Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Supes and countless other Leaguers had flight and Doomy still bodied all of them. 

-Yeah and it’s a real hard wincon to counter. Supes, Wonder Woman, Darkseid, even Gog, another Superman killer, couldn’t survive it. Now do you honestly believe Beta Ray Bill is stronger then Superman and/or Darkseid? And if yes then your gonna have to show feats that prove that, cause so far you haven’t showed any proof.

-He beat Thor without Stormbreaker. And in that fight proved to Odín that he was worthy enough to be an asgardian on Thor’s level. He’s consistently shown to be on par with the likes of silver surfer, etc. Calling him a Thor wannabe is misleading and you know that. 
 

-Why is being teleported away not a win condition? BFR has always been a method of winning in a fight like this. The Guardian specifically uses that ability and it’s been used several times to beat Doomsday. BRB opening a portal and sending him away or just blowing the planet is in character and works to win the fight. BRB is more resourceful and opens up his powers immediately more so than Thor. 
 

-Cracking Galactus’ armor and tanking a subsequent blast are in-line with BRB’s power. He’s a casual planet buster, I don’t know why being able to deal physical damage and surviving blasts from Marvel’s highest-tier threat is anything less than impressive. There’s no reason to dismiss this feat. Aside from that, he keeps up with Silver Surfer and beats Stardust in a fight. He’s over Herald of Galactus level consistently. 

-Doomsday is biologically kryptonian. He’s ancient kryptonian, but still has that biology. This, it’s very reasonable to assume magic is effective against him. 

-Sure Darkseid used the omega beams once, and the writers decided that for whatever reason Doomsday could tank that, but he literally then just goes to fighting him straight up, rather than just opening up a boom tube, etc to pull the fight in his favor. Hunter/Prey is the problem with Doomsday and his feats in that writers just dump new durability on him that’s wildly inconsistent. Each new story seems to have the writer just do whatever he wants in terms of scaling.

-BRB can keep at range, his flight speed matches Silver Surfer so that should be a huge advantage against a combatant who has to leap. If Doomsday isn’t being wanked than someone who can keep at range and move faster should be a big factor in a fight like this.

-BRB is easily on Thor’s level. Thor and Superman are a close fight. I don’t really have to prove much more than that to put BRB on Supes’ level.

 

-BRB is versatile Thor with morals off right away. He consistently keeps up with galactic characters and is a solar system threat by his power output. His powers give him a whole toolbox of ways to deal with Doomsday in a way that most DC characters can’t. Again, I think he has more ways to win here and should be smart enough to leverage the advantages he has. 

[Magnamax]

13 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

Why do you open with your absolute weakest argument? That is opening a whole nother can of worms.

BRB is on the level of the character that Doomsday is most often immediately compared against. Don’t think it’s an argument that should be dismissed.

[Magnamax]

Follow-up:

- BRB uses portals pretty regularly in combat to teleport himself, others, and objects to his advantage. Here's him doing that in a fight against Ego: 

Bill bodying Stardust hard, including casually tackling him through a planet:

https://imgur.com/a/cj7sP

Blasting Stardust:

Fighting Surfer. Even until Surfer leverages his board, then Bill uses his Spaceship. IF he has access to this, then that's even more power that he brings against Doomsday:

 

https://imgur.com/a/iilAU#0

Force fields as a defense. Enough to casually block blasts from Nova:

TL:DR Bill is a very versatile and intelligent fighter that does a good job of finding creative solutions in his fights. I think he's the perfect combatant against a one-dimensional guy like Doomsday.

[Pizzaguy2995]

2 hours ago, Magnamax said:

-He beat Thor without Stormbreaker. And in that fight proved to Odín that he was worthy enough to be an asgardian on Thor’s level. He’s consistently shown to be on par with the likes of silver surfer, etc. Calling him a Thor wannabe is misleading and you know that. 
 

-Why is being teleported away not a win condition? BFR has always been a method of winning in a fight like this. The Guardian specifically uses that ability and it’s been used several times to beat Doomsday. BRB opening a portal and sending him away or just blowing the planet is in character and works to win the fight. BRB is more resourceful and opens up his powers immediately more so than Thor. 
 

-Cracking Galactus’ armor and tanking a subsequent blast are in-line with BRB’s power. He’s a casual planet buster, I don’t know why being able to deal physical damage and surviving blasts from Marvel’s highest-tier threat is anything less than impressive. There’s no reason to dismiss this feat. Aside from that, he keeps up with Silver Surfer and beats Stardust in a fight. He’s over Herald of Galactus level consistently. 

-Doomsday is biologically kryptonian. He’s ancient kryptonian, but still has that biology. This, it’s very reasonable to assume magic is effective against him. 

-Sure Darkseid used the omega beams once, and the writers decided that for whatever reason Doomsday could tank that, but he literally then just goes to fighting him straight up, rather than just opening up a boom tube, etc to pull the fight in his favor. Hunter/Prey is the problem with Doomsday and his feats in that writers just dump new durability on him that’s wildly inconsistent. Each new story seems to have the writer just do whatever he wants in terms of scaling.

-BRB can keep at range, his flight speed matches Silver Surfer so that should be a huge advantage against a combatant who has to leap. If Doomsday isn’t being wanked than someone who can keep at range and move faster should be a big factor in a fight like this.

-BRB is easily on Thor’s level. Thor and Superman are a close fight. I don’t really have to prove much more than that to put BRB on Supes’ level.

 

-BRB is versatile Thor with morals off right away. He consistently keeps up with galactic characters and is a solar system threat by his power output. His powers give him a whole toolbox of ways to deal with Doomsday in a way that most DC characters can’t. Again, I think he has more ways to win here and should be smart enough to leverage the advantages he has. 

 

-Dude stop lying. See the image above? Did Thor transform back into Donald Blake or not? And if yes how in the world can you say that Bill won that fight fairly? Especially when Thor openly said the fight was over and was on the verge of killing Bill before said shenanigans happened. Also as far as I’m aware he’s lost most if not all his fights with Silver Surfer too so again that’s not a comparable feat to Doomsday bodying Darkseid and killing a GL Guardian.

-Because by default the main rules of a CBUB fight is to win via kill blow or knock out. This isn’t the World Tournament from Dragon Ball Z, ring outs do not count as wins. So unless BRB either kills Doomy or knocks him out he has not won. So no, teleporting doesn’t count as a win neither would busting Middle-Earth because again the GL Guardian blasted Doomy across space and the monster survived that!

-Is Silver Surfer as powerful as Galactus? Are Hulk or Ragnarok? Cause they’ve kicked Bill’s alien horse ass before, so to say that Bill is powerful enough to harm Galactus but then lose out to Hulk and Ragnarok is what makes me call his cracking of the Devour of Worlds armor an anomaly. Especially when I have have a clip of him in another comic saying he could never harm Galactus:

-Doomsday is NOT a Kryptonian! He was created on Krypton, but he’s not the same species as Superman! If he’s Kryptonian how come he looks nothing like Supes?How come he’s not weak to Kryptonite like Supes? Both Humanity and the Atlanteans were created on Earth, do humans also dry out and die if their outside the ocean water for too long? Just cause Doomy was created on Krypton does not make him biologically Kryptonian!

-Wrong. The point of the Hunter/Prey comic was to show that Doomsday had evolved to to at least a Galactic/Herald level of power, culminating in him tanking a blast from the literal God of Evil and then mopping the floor with him! So no this is a very well written and well thought out comic that shows us exactly what would happen if a being powerful enough to kill Superman just kept getting stronger and stronger.

-Bro, Doomsday has kept pace with and even blitzed speedsters like Superman and Flash, both of whom are easily as fast if not faster then SS. Bill will not have a speed advantage. Also as I’ve repeatedly stated Doomy has destroyed flight bound characters time after time so would you please stop trying to make flight some big factor in this fight, cause your just undercutting yourself and proving you have no idea how strong Doomsday is.

-And Doomsday is stronger then Superman! At the end of the Hunter/Prey comics Supes and that other New God he was with were forced to send Doomsday to the end of time itself because they literally could not think of any other way to stop him! BRB meanwhile got his ass destroyed by the Thor clone Ragnarok who the REAL Thor proceeded to annihilate! So if anything Bill is slightly weaker then Thor!

-Magnamax unless you can tell me right now what attack Beta Ray Bill has that is more powerful then Darkseid’s Omega Beam then you should really stop talking. If Bill can’t at least match that level of power then he no shot at beating Doomsday.

[Magnamax]

2 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

 

-Dude stop lying. See the image above? Did Thor transform back into Donald Blake or not? And if yes how in the world can you say that Bill won that fight fairly? Especially when Thor openly said the fight was over and was on the verge of killing Bill before said shenanigans happened. Also as far as I’m aware he’s lost most if not all his fights with Silver Surfer too so again that’s not a comparable feat to Doomsday bodying Darkseid and killing a GL Guardian.

-Because by default the main rules of a CBUB fight is to win via kill blow or knock out. This isn’t the World Tournament from Dragon Ball Z, ring outs do not count as wins. So unless BRB either kills Doomy or knocks him out he has not won. So no, teleporting doesn’t count as a win neither would busting Middle-Earth because again the GL Guardian blasted Doomy across space and the monster survived that!

-Is Silver Surfer as powerful as Galactus? Are Hulk or Ragnarok? Cause they’ve kicked Bill’s alien horse ass before, so to say that Bill is powerful enough to harm Galactus but then lose out to Hulk and Ragnarok is what makes me call his cracking of the Devour of Worlds armor an anomaly. Especially when I have have a clip of him in another comic saying he could never harm Galactus:

-Doomsday is NOT a Kryptonian! He was created on Krypton, but he’s not the same species as Superman! If he’s Kryptonian how come he looks nothing like Supes?How come he’s not weak to Kryptonite like Supes? Both Humanity and the Atlanteans were created on Earth, do humans also dry out and die if their outside the ocean water for too long? Just cause Doomy was created on Krypton does not make him biologically Kryptonian!

-Wrong. The point of the Hunter/Prey comic was to show that Doomsday had evolved to to at least a Galactic/Herald level of power, culminating in him tanking a blast from the literal God of Evil and then mopping the floor with him! So no this is a very well written and well thought out comic that shows us exactly what would happen if a being powerful enough to kill Superman just kept getting stronger and stronger.

-Bro, Doomsday has kept pace with and even blitzed speedsters like Superman and Flash, both of whom are easily as fast if not faster then SS. Bill will not have a speed advantage. Also as I’ve repeatedly stated Doomy has destroyed flight bound characters time after time so would you please stop trying to make flight some big factor in this fight, cause your just undercutting yourself and proving you have no idea how strong Doomsday is.

-And Doomsday is stronger then Superman! At the end of the Hunter/Prey comics Supes and that other New God he was with were forced to send Doomsday to the end of time itself because they literally could not think of any other way to stop him! BRB meanwhile got his ass destroyed by the Thor clone Ragnarok who the REAL Thor proceeded to annihilate! So if anything Bill is slightly weaker then Thor!

-Magnamax unless you can tell me right now what attack Beta Ray Bill has that is more powerful then Darkseid’s Omega Beam then you should really stop talking. If Bill can’t at least match that level of power then he no shot at beating Doomsday.

Pizza guy, you need to relax. Not worth getting worked up or falsely accusing  others of lying for an Internet forum debate. I’m not lying, he beat Thor without having Stormbreaker. I’m not making any personal accusations against you, I’d appreciate if you did the same.That’s what happened, you’ve given context, and I haven’t disputed it. Point remains that he has proved he is an incredibly powerful character in his own right.

 

-BFR is a valid form of winning a fight, especially since he could just drop Doomsday off anywhere he needed. BRB has these forms of hax that he can use in a fight like this. He’s exceptional at leveraging his abilities in a given situation, which is why I think he’s well-suited to fight someone like Doomsday.

 

-Comic characters have varied results. Not sure which Hulk fight you are referring to, at least I can’t find it, but he more often posts feats that are far above that level. He is an even match for Surfer, who is stronger any other character we’ve been arguing about. Cracking Galactus is an impressive cap for his feats and gives him a high enough damage output to hurt Doomsday. So does him fighting Stardust.

 

-I don’t think Hunter/Prey is well written for the same reason I think Doomsday is rarely well written as a character. He just gets pumped to be more adaptable, though it rarely makes sense. If Doomsday was able to be punched to death by Superman, then there’s no way he should be able to beat Darkseid. By the same token, DC doesn’t keep Darkseid very consistent either. Point being, that’s the only instance where Doomsday has shown those abilities, and he’s been beaten by lesser characters since that comic. By your logic, if Doomsday is on a herald level, then BRB should be fine since he has proven to be on that level himself. 

 

-Everything I see claims Doomsday is kryptonian in biology. I guess if you don’t think he is, there’s not much more to gain from arguing the point.

 

-I’m not undercutting anything. BRB has better energy manipulation and damage output than Superman, and leverages ranged attacks more. He’s much faster and more powerful than a lantern. Point being that BRB has a bigger toolbox than most heroes Doomsday has faced. Magic should work (don’t think he’s died to that before, certainly not ashardian magic), that’s why I think Bill’s flight matters. 
 

-You’ve described something Bill can do. Just open a rift and drop him somewhere nasty. He can also just planet bust.

[Pizzaguy2995]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:48 PM, Magnamax said:

Pizza guy, you need to relax. Not worth getting worked up or falsely accusing  others of lying for an Internet forum debate. I’m not lying, he beat Thor without having Stormbreaker. I’m not making any personal accusations against you, I’d appreciate if you did the same.That’s what happened, you’ve given context, and I haven’t disputed it. Point remains that he has proved he is an incredibly powerful character in his own right.

 

-BFR is a valid form of winning a fight, especially since he could just drop Doomsday off anywhere he needed. BRB has these forms of hax that he can use in a fight like this. He’s exceptional at leveraging his abilities in a given situation, which is why I think he’s well-suited to fight someone like Doomsday.

 

-Comic characters have varied results. Not sure which Hulk fight you are referring to, at least I can’t find it, but he more often posts feats that are far above that level. He is an even match for Surfer, who is stronger any other character we’ve been arguing about. Cracking Galactus is an impressive cap for his feats and gives him a high enough damage output to hurt Doomsday. So does him fighting Stardust.

 

-I don’t think Hunter/Prey is well written for the same reason I think Doomsday is rarely well written as a character. He just gets pumped to be more adaptable, though it rarely makes sense. If Doomsday was able to be punched to death by Superman, then there’s no way he should be able to beat Darkseid. By the same token, DC doesn’t keep Darkseid very consistent either. Point being, that’s the only instance where Doomsday has shown those abilities, and he’s been beaten by lesser characters since that comic. By your logic, if Doomsday is on a herald level, then BRB should be fine since he has proven to be on that level himself. 

 

-Everything I see claims Doomsday is kryptonian in biology. I guess if you don’t think he is, there’s not much more to gain from arguing the point.

 

-I’m not undercutting anything. BRB has better energy manipulation and damage output than Superman, and leverages ranged attacks more. He’s much faster and more powerful than a lantern. Point being that BRB has a bigger toolbox than most heroes Doomsday has faced. Magic should work (don’t think he’s died to that before, certainly not ashardian magic), that’s why I think Bill’s flight matters. 
 

-You’ve described something Bill can do. Just open a rift and drop him somewhere nasty. He can also just planet bust.

-My problem is that while might not be technically lying, you are misrepresenting what actually happened to suit your narrative. Like your actively trying to perpetuate that Bill beat Thor during their first meeting fairly and not because Thor lost his power’s right as he was about to defeat Bill. Like come on bro, that’s a dirty move and you know it. At the very least admit that Bill only won through sheer dumb luck on his part.

-And where would he drop Doomy off that would gain Bill any sort of advantage? Doomsday has survived the cold vacuums of space and Darkseid’s Omega Beam, so could you please explain how Bill’s teleporting powers or other forms of hax could do any kind of damage that Doomy hasn’t already endured?

-And Doomsday has beaten down a Guardian of the Universe and Darkseid! Both characters are Skyfather levels of power, aka much more powerful then Silver Surfer or Stardust. And again I’ve shown a comic scan of Bill admitting that he’s too weak to really harm Galactus, which further proves my point that his “cracking Galactus’ armor feat” isn’t really as impressive as you make it out to be.

On 1/1/2022 at 2:48 PM, Magnamax said:

-I don’t think Hunter/Prey is well written for the same reason I think Doomsday is rarely well written as a character. He just gets pumped to be more adaptable, though it rarely makes sense. If Doomsday was able to be punched to death by Superman, then there’s no way he should be able to beat Darkseid.

-Oh I’m sorry, then by that logic Goku is barely a street level character since he’s lost a fight to Jackie Chun (Master Roshi) so anyone who says he’s now at Superman level is wrong right? Also remember when Hulk lost to Wolverine during one of his earliest comic appearances?

Therefore by your logic Wolverine>Hulk and Master Roshi>Goku and it’s ridiculous to say that either Goku or Hulk should be comparable to Superman right? What’s that? Oh characters are allowed to get stronger over time and that currently Hulk and Goku are much stronger then Wolvey and Roshi? Well don’t you think we should apply that same logic to Doomsday then? That he’s allowed to become stronger over time just like any other character is allowed to?

 

[Peypeypeypey]

28 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

-And where would he drop Doomy off that would gain Bill any sort of advantage? Doomsday has survived the cold vacuums of space and Darkseid’s Omega Beam, so could you please explain how Bill’s teleporting powers or other forms of hax could do any kind of damage that Doomy hasn’t already endured?

I don't want to get too involved in this one because I don't know a ton about BRB and so I don't really have much to contribute, but I will say that BRB actually doesn't have to teleport him anywhere harmful to get a win in this fight. The teleporting him away is the wincon, because the fight has a specified location, and in most battleforums posts, Battlefield Removal (BFR) is a perfectly viable and completely valid method for victory. If the fight has to take place at a certain location, which it does here, then if one combatant is able knock their opponent far enough away that they are unable to return in a reasonable amount of time, or if one of them has a power such a teleportation which they can use to remove the other character from the battle, then depending on the forum and the stipulations of the fight the character who can't get back to the battlefield loses. As far as I remember, Fox hasn't specified whether BFR would constitute a victory or not, but the fact that there is a specified location that the battle has to take place in implies to me that if one combatant leaves, or in this case is forced to leave, the arena, and they can't get back quickly, then the other combatant would win. So he doesn't need to send him anywhere dangerous at all, just far enough that he couldn't get back quickly, if BFR is an allowed win condition here.

[Pizzaguy2995]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:48 PM, Magnamax said:

I’m not undercutting anything. BRB has better energy manipulation and damage output than Superman, and leverages ranged attacks more. He’s much faster and more powerful than a lantern. Point being that BRB has a bigger toolbox than most heroes Doomsday has faced. Magic should work (don’t think he’s died to that before, certainly not ashardian magic), that’s why I think Bill’s flight matters. 
 

-You’ve described something Bill can do. Just open a rift and drop him somewhere nasty. He can also just planet bust.

Alright let’s finish this once for all: You know that Superman vs Thor fight that neutral party Twogunkid said is canon? Supes won that fight right? Therefore Supes>Thor.

And also long after that first time meeting bout between Thor and Bill that you like to bring up so much, the two warriors had a rematch where Thor absolutely beat the brakes off Bill!

 

Therefore Superman>Thor>Beta Ray Bill. And finally as I keep bringing up during the Hunter/Prey storyline Doomsday at that time was so powerful that both Superman and the New God that was with him both agreed that neither of them could beat Doomsday and that the only way to stop him is to teleport him to the end of time! So without question H/P Doomsday > Supes > Thor > Beta Ray Bill!

Doomsday will destroy Bill. Nuff said.

[Pizzaguy2995]

8 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I don't want to get too involved in this one because I don't know a ton about BRB and so I don't really have much to contribute, but I will say that BRB actually doesn't have to teleport him anywhere harmful to get a win in this fight. The teleporting him away is the wincon, because the fight has a specified location, and in most battleforums posts, Battlefield Removal (BFR) is a perfectly viable and completely valid method for victory. If the fight has to take place at a certain location, which it does here, then if one combatant is able knock their opponent far enough away that they are unable to return in a reasonable amount of time, or if one of them has a power such a teleportation which they can use to remove the other character from the battle, then depending on the forum and the stipulations of the fight the character who can't get back to the battlefield loses. As far as I remember, Fox hasn't specified whether BFR would constitute a victory or not, but the fact that there is a specified location that the battle has to take place in implies to me that if one combatant leaves, or in this case is forced to leave, the arena, and they can't get back quickly, then the other combatant would win. So he doesn't need to send him anywhere dangerous at all, just far enough that he couldn't get back quickly, if BFR is an allowed win condition here.

Well thank you for explaining that to me much better then Magnamax did. But anyways like you and many others have brought up over the years we have to consider whether the combatant would canonically try to open the fight by teleporting/removing their opponent from the terrain or not. Bill doesn’t really use his teleporting hax for anything other then personal travel, heck he’d probably consider that option cowardly and dishonorable as a warrior. So I doubt he’d really use it like that. 

[Pizzaguy2995]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:48 PM, Magnamax said:

BFR is a valid form of winning a fight, especially since he could just drop Doomsday off anywhere he needed. BRB has these forms of hax that he can use in a fight like this. He’s exceptional at leveraging his abilities in a given situation, which is why I think he’s well-suited to fight someone like Doomsday.

Like I told Peypey though, would it really make sense for Bill as a character to use his powers as BRB win? He’s a warrior who loves combat and adheres to some form of warriors code. So wouldn’t he see getting a win that way as cowardly and an insult to his honor?

In a Goku vs Superman fight would it be fair of me to argue that Goku would just instant transmission a kryptonite into the arena to defeat/kill Superman when we both know that Goku would never do that? Or how about if during the Flash vs Captain Marvel match would it be reasonable for me to say that Flash could BRB the fight via transporting Carol back in time to the age of the Dinosaurs? Sure we know Flash can do that, but the fact is that he almost never does that and it really wouldn’t be in character for him to do so. Just like Bill would likely never consider avoiding a fight via BRB cause he enjoys battle too much and cause he’s find it dishonorable. 

[Magnamax]

51 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Well thank you for explaining that to me much better then Magnamax did. But anyways like you and many others have brought up over the years we have to consider whether the combatant would canonically try to open the fight by teleporting/removing their opponent from the terrain or not. Bill doesn’t really use his teleporting hax for anything other then personal travel, heck he’d probably consider that option cowardly and dishonorable as a warrior. So I doubt he’d really use it like that. 

I said multiple times he can BFR him away from the battlefield. I assumed that explained the wincon, Doomsday is no longer on the battlefield, that constitutes a win and is how Doomsday has been beaten multiple times.

 

To address some other points:

-I haven’t brought up the Bill/Thor fight multiple times, you keep insisting on arguing it. I brought it up initially because you dismissively called Bill a Thor Wannabe. He matched Thor in hand to hand combat without Stormbreaker or asgardian powers to the point that Thor says “never have I been matched by a mortal” in the scan you posted. Thor is disarmed by Bill in the fight and becomes mortal.

They then Shortly have a rematch where Bill again fights Thor evenly and gets up first when they both get knocked out. Odín then seems Bill worthy and gives him Stormbreaker and grants him the power of Thor. Him matching Thor without those powers is incredibly impressive. Never have I been dirty on these events or misappropriated what happened. 

 

-Thor himself calls Bill his equal: https://m.imgur.com/bbdxKPR

The Supes/Thor fight puts those two on the same level. It’s an even fight where Superman says “he might be the single toughest opponent,” then is quickly knocked out. Thor is on Supes level and there are infinite number of forum posts you can go through on this. Transitive arguing doesn’t work either and I’m not suggesting that Goku is a street level or whatever. I’m pointing out that Doomsday is wildly inconsistent and that the Darkseid fight feels like PIS. Darkseid is a character that should be miles beyond anyone subcosmic but ye has been beaten by weaker characters.

Bill’s Galactus feat has him cut through one of Galactus’ blasts then chops through his armor. https://m.imgur.com/JOnneL7
It’s a high end feat that proves he can tank and harm some of the most powerful beings in his universe. 

-I’ve posted scans of Bill using portals in a fight. He absolutely will do that if it will win him the fight. Your Goku example doesn’t make sense because there’s no reason for him to know what Kryptonite is and why he could transmite him there. Bill used portals on the regular and can open them up from a distance to send Doomsday away. This is a likely thing for him to do. 
 

Here’s him using it against Ego: https://m.imgur.com/iutYUGW

Here’s a funny one of him teleporting a black hole: https://m.imgur.com/CnSxBli

Him creating a warp tunnel: https://m.imgur.com/eA8dE4u

Used a similar ability to siphon power from ego: https://m.imgur.com/the7qbb

Energy projection is enough to eradicate Asteroth/Omega Ray. Bill forced her into her non cosmic form, then blows her up: https://m.imgur.com/IMQLNX6

-Larger point still being that Bill has magic, battlefield destruction, and BFR as valid ways to win. The only way he should lose is if he just engages Doomsday in a hand-to-hand battle, which he doesn’t default to on a regular basis. Bill is a good matchup with Doomsday because he won’t just start chucking Stormbreaker and punching Doomsday. 

 

[Pizzaguy2995]

2 hours ago, Magnamax said:

 

To address some other points:

-I haven’t brought up the Bill/Thor fight multiple times, you keep insisting on arguing it. I brought it up initially because you dismissively called Bill a Thor Wannabe. He matched Thor in hand to hand combat without Stormbreaker or asgardian powers to the point that Thor says “never have I been matched by a mortal” in the scan you posted. Thor is disarmed by Bill in the fight and becomes mortal.

-THERE! Your misappropriating the fight right there! You know damn well after Thor lost Mjolnor he proceeded to beat down Bill and was on the verge of killing him until Thor reverted back to Donald Blake. That’s an example of omitting evidence and playing dirty!

2 hours ago, Magnamax said:

 

They then Shortly have a rematch where Bill again fights Thor evenly and gets up first when they both get knocked out. Odín then seems Bill worthy and gives him Stormbreaker and grants him the power of Thor. Him matching Thor without those powers is incredibly impressive. Never have I been dirty on these events or misappropriated what happened. 

Well if you wanted to present Bill as Thor’s equal then that would’ve been a bit more respectable and fair. But when you try to say that a non powered Bill fought and beat Thor fairly without mentioning Thor was winning until he was depowered then that is when I start to take exception to how your presenting your arguments.

2 hours ago, Magnamax said:

The Supes/Thor fight puts those two on the same level. It’s an even fight where Superman says “he might be the single toughest opponent,” then is quickly knocked out. Thor is on Supes level and there are infinite number of forum posts you can go through on this. Transitive arguing doesn’t work either and I’m not suggesting that Goku is a street level or whatever. I’m pointing out that Doomsday is wildly inconsistent and that the Darkseid fight feels like PIS. Darkseid is a character that should be miles beyond anyone subcosmic but ye has been beaten by weaker characters.

Bill’s Galactus feat has him cut through one of Galactus’ blasts then chops through his armor. https://m.imgur.com/JOnneL7
It’s a high end feat that proves he can tank and harm some of the most powerful beings in his universe. 

That maybe so but where I disagree is the assessment that Bill is exactly Thor’s equal currently. I’ve already shown you the comic scan of Thor beating the brakes off Bill during their 3rd tango, but I’ve also found a fourth fight between the two when Thor was blinded by his warrior’s madness and Thor once again destroyed Bill and would have killed him had the Silver Surfer not intervened:

So all this evidence leads me to conclude that when Thor isn’t holding back he’s much stronger then Bill. Also if your aware of transitive arguments then you know that characters can and often do become stronger over time! So then if we know that Doomsday started already strong enough to match Superman and we know Supes on occasion can give Darkseid a good fight then why is it so hard to believe that he can eventually get strong enough to be as strong as Darkseid? Doomy was literally designed to be an OP villain from the start, he literally killed the strongest hero in DC comics and bodied the other leaguers during his first appearance. Where else would his character go after that?

Also I saw your scan of Bill damaging Galactus, and as I mentioned before Bill’s attack seemed to annoy Galactus more then anything. So again this feat really isn’t as impressive as your making it out to be. It certainly isn’t the equivalent of Doomsday overpowering a GL Guardian and Darkseid, both Skyfather level characters.

2 hours ago, Magnamax said:

-I’ve posted scans of Bill using portals in a fight. He absolutely will do that if it will win him the fight. Your Goku example doesn’t make sense because there’s no reason for him to know what Kryptonite is and why he could transmite him there. Bill used portals on the regular and can open them up from a distance to send Doomsday away. This is a likely thing for him to do. 
 

Here’s him using it against Ego: https://m.imgur.com/iutYUGW

Here’s a funny one of him teleporting a black hole: https://m.imgur.com/CnSxBli

Him creating a warp tunnel: https://m.imgur.com/eA8dE4u

Used a similar ability to siphon power from ego: https://m.imgur.com/the7qbb

Energy projection is enough to eradicate Asteroth/Omega Ray. Bill forced her into her non cosmic form, then blows her up: https://m.imgur.com/IMQLNX6

-Larger point still being that Bill has magic, battlefield destruction, and BFR as valid ways to win. The only way he should lose is if he just engages Doomsday in a hand-to-hand battle, which he doesn’t default to on a regular basis. Bill is a good matchup with Doomsday because he won’t just start chucking Stormbreaker and punching Doomsday. 

But none of your scans show an example of Bill specifically teleporting an opponent away from him in order to avoid the fight. The BFB method that your suggesting Bill would do just isn’t being shown with the scans I have seen. Plus again, Bill is a warrior who loves combat and despises cowardly actions, so why would he even consider doing something so underhanded & dishonorable? C’mon Magna, you and I both know that’s not Bill’s style.

Besides I think doing something like that just defeats the point of this scenario. This is the “Big Guns” category, not the “teleporting each other like pussies” category. I’m pretty sure the point of this match is to see big meaty boys beating the absolute dog shit out of each other. How could you live with yourself if you didn’t give the audience what they asked for?

[Magnamax]

8 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

-THERE! Your misappropriating the fight right there! You know damn well after Thor lost Mjolnor he proceeded to beat down Bill and was on the verge of killing him until Thor reverted back to Donald Blake. That’s an example of omitting evidence and playing dirty!

Well if you wanted to present Bill as Thor’s equal then that would’ve been a bit more respectable and fair. But when you try to say that a non powered Bill fought and beat Thor fairly without mentioning Thor was winning until he was depowered then that is when I start to take exception to how your presenting your arguments.

That maybe so but where I disagree is the assessment that Bill is exactly Thor’s equal currently. I’ve already shown you the comic scan of Thor beating the brakes off Bill during their 3rd tango, but I’ve also found a fourth fight between the two when Thor was blinded by his warrior’s madness and Thor once again destroyed Bill and would have killed him had the Silver Surfer not intervened:

So all this evidence leads me to conclude that when Thor isn’t holding back he’s much stronger then Bill. Also if your aware of transitive arguments then you know that characters can and often do become stronger over time! So then if we know that Doomsday started already strong enough to match Superman and we know Supes on occasion can give Darkseid a good fight then why is it so hard to believe that he can eventually get strong enough to be as strong as Darkseid? Doomy was literally designed to be an OP villain from the start, he literally killed the strongest hero in DC comics and bodied the other leaguers during his first appearance. Where else would his character go after that?

Also I saw your scan of Bill damaging Galactus, and as I mentioned before Bill’s attack seemed to annoy Galactus more then anything. So again this feat really isn’t as impressive as your making it out to be. It certainly isn’t the equivalent of Doomsday overpowering a GL Guardian and Darkseid, both Skyfather level characters.

But none of your scans show an example of Bill specifically teleporting an opponent away from him in order to avoid the fight. The BFB method that your suggesting Bill would do just isn’t being shown with the scans I have seen. Plus again, Bill is a warrior who loves combat and despises cowardly actions, so why would he even consider doing something so underhanded & dishonorable? C’mon Magna, you and I both know that’s not Bill’s style.

Besides I think doing something like that just defeats the point of this scenario. This is the “Big Guns” category, not the “teleporting each other like pussies” category. I’m pretty sure the point of this match is to see big meaty boys beating the absolute dog shit out of each other. How could you live with yourself if you didn’t give the audience what they asked for?

-Nope, gave you the full narration and scans of both fights. Dunno why we’re stuck on this point, but there’s not much more I can write. Bill disarmed Thor despite not having any powers. Thor gets a punch in and calls Bill “one of the mightiest mortals he has fought” then is probably going to win before he reverts back. Bill then beats him shortly thereafter in a rematch without Stormbreaker. They’ve fought evenly before, both have won, etc.
 

-I don’t know why the guardians are Skyfather level. They look like they’re more fourth tier than on Odin’s level. Forcing one to sacrifice to defeat Doomsday is impressive, but not much greater than a herald. 
 

-He’s clearly using them to teleport things in the midst of combat and others. It’s a strategy he would use.

 

-I think we’ve both made cases as well as we can. Argument either way is clear, just waiting on the vote.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Beta Ray Bill: 2
Doomsday: 9