12:16 - Lord Dominator vs. Professor Ratigan

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 16

Lord Dominator

Slot: The Team's Disney Fairy Tale Villain
Season Wins: 2
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Lord Dominator at Wikipedia
Official Site: Disney

Professor Ratigan

Slot: The Team's Disney Fairy Tale Villain
Season Wins: 2
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Professor Ratigan at Wikipedia
Official Site: Disney

Battle Terrain
Disney Villains: Assassinate Tinkerbelle

[Twogunkid]

Dominator may be a planet buster, but the challenge is assassinate, not get with collateral damage. She may nuke Neverland, but that is not the objective.

 

Ratigan is the right size to try and carry this out. Plus his minions are the type to fit right in in all the Tinkerbell movie and Peter Pan movie settings. A Rat, a cat, and a legion of loyal mice are more likely to pull of a stealth mission than a galactic despot who is on the wrong scale for the fight at hand.

 

Assassination is a tool of precision not pure power. This calls for a scalpel and  a planning villain, not a sledgehammer and a villain who's solution is to just blast away.

[Pizzaguy2995]

Firstly how exactly would Ratigan get to Never Land again? I doubt he has a spaceship lying around that could take him there so the only other way for him to get there is with pixie dust and by having faith and trust. Things that someone like Ratigan would likely have little of.

Secondly need I remind y’all how insanely durable Tinker Bell is?

@1:58 she survived being at the epicenter of an explosion big enough to be seen from miles away and cause several trees to be blown into the sky! I don’t think Ratigan or his minions will have the firepower to take Tink out! But I guarantee you Lord Dominator will!

Also on top of being tougher then she looks Tinker Bell can fly and glide very fast so I’m also questioning how Ratigan will be able to keep up with the fairy. Lord Dominator’s technology and drones will be far better at keeping up with Tinker Bell.

[Twogunkid]

1 minute ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Firstly how exactly would Ratigan get to Never Land again? I doubt he has a spaceship lying around that could take him there so the only other way for him to get there is with pixie dust and by having faith and trust. Things that someone like Ratigan would likely have little of.

Secondly need I remind y’all how insanely durable Tinker Bell is?

@1:58 she survived being at the epicenter of an explosion big enough to be seen from miles away and cause several trees to be blown into the sky! I don’t think Ratigan or his minions will have the firepower to take Tink out! But I guarantee you Lord Dominator will!

Also on top of being tougher then she looks Tinker Bell can fly and glide very fast so I’m also questioning how Ratigan will be able to keep up with the fairy. Lord Dominator’s technology and drones will be far better at keeping up with Tinker Bell.

Tink is not without weaknesses. Water for one. Gotta be up on your Tinkerbell movie lore. This is where six younger sisters come in handy. Leveling Neverland is not an assassination. This is a subtle approach something Dominator cannot do to save her life. Further, Tink routinely visits London in her movies which happens to be where Ratigan resides. No reason he has to go to Neverland to kill her, but can easily wait in a child's home and blackmail Tink into a death trap (something he has done to before), or set a cunning trap (again something he has done before and that Tink is vulnerable to)

[Pizzaguy2995]

20 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Tink is not without weaknesses. Water for one. Gotta be up on your Tinkerbell movie lore. This is where six younger sisters come in handy. Leveling Neverland is not an assassination. This is a subtle approach something Dominator cannot do to save her life. Further, Tink routinely visits London in her movies which happens to be where Ratigan resides. No reason he has to go to Neverland to kill her, but can easily wait in a child's home and blackmail Tink into a death trap (something he has done to before), or set a cunning trap (again something he has done before and that Tink is vulnerable to)

Yeah but Ratigan has no way of knowing about her weakness to water. And judging from the death trap he strapped Basil to he seems to have a preference for cutting and bludgeoning weapons so it’s doubtful he’ll attempt to drown Tinker Bell at any length. And that’s if he’s able to catch the elusive and flight bound fairy.

And remind me again why blowing up Never Land isn’t a good assassination? It’s quick, efficient, and Tink definitely won’t see it coming. And also Dominator has far more impressive feats when it comes to catching quick and elusive magical beings. Wander is one of the most elusive and uncatchable beings in the Wander Over Yonder universe, countless other galactic conquers like Lord Hater had tried to capture/kill him for so long and none of them ever succeeded. And in the series finale Dominator succeeded where they all failed when she (briefly) captured Wonder to use as a hostage against his friends and allies. That’s a far better example of catching a very tricky magical creature then Ratigan has ever done. 

Finally even if Tink does occasionally leave Never Land the fact is she spends most of her time on that island and thus Dominator’s ability to travel to the place will be a huge advantage and she won’t be spending her time waiting around and hoping that Tink happens to come across one of her traps.

[Twogunkid]

1 minute ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Yeah but Ratigan has no way of knowing about her weakness to water. And judging from the death trap he strapped Basil to he seems to have a preference for cutting and bludgeoning weapons so it’s doubtful he’ll attempt to drown Tinker Bell at any length. And that’s if he’s able to catch the elusive and flight bound fairy.

And remind me again why blowing up Never Land isn’t a good assassination? It’s quick, efficient, and Tink definitely won’t see it coming. And also Dominator has far more impressive feats when it comes to catching quick and elusive magical beings. Wander is one of the most elusive and uncatchable beings in the Wander Over Yonder universe, countless other galactic conquers like Lord Hater had tried to capture/kill him for so long and none of them ever succeeded. And in the series finale Dominator succeeded where they all failed when she (briefly) captured Wonder to use as a hostage against his friends and allies. That’s a far better example of catching a very tricky magical creature then Ratigan has ever done. 

Finally even if Tink does occasionally leave Never Land the fact is she spends most of her time on that island and thus Dominator’s ability to travel to the place will be a huge advantage and she won’t be spending her time waiting around and hoping that Tink happens to come across one of her traps.

Because it is not an assassination. If Magneto leveled the Xavier institute by dropping Asteroid M on it, we wouldn't say he assassinated Professor X. We would say he leveled the area. The challenge is an assissination which means there is a degree of subtlety to it.

Plus Ratigan is the World's Greatest Criminal Mind. He shows us a willingness to do the prep work to achieve his goals. He can do the homework about Fairy Weakenesses (Lack of Belief, Drowning) and use that to his advantage as well.

I also do not know why you say Ratigan would not drown Tink. He has already drowned Widows and Orphans.

Dominator's plan is "I see something I blast it" and as you pointed out, blasting Tink is not very effective.

[Pizzaguy2995]

23 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Because it is not an assassination. If Magneto leveled the Xavier institute by dropping Asteroid M on it, we wouldn't say he assassinated Professor X. We would say he leveled the area. The challenge is an assissination which means there is a degree of subtlety to it.

 

I don’t mean to bring in real world examples but hasn’t the US carried out assassinations on known terrorist leaders via drone strikes that blow up entire villages? That’s not exactly subtle either and yet everyone defines that as assassinating a key target. So again Lord Dominator blowing up Never Land should be treated as a fair means of assassinating a target, it’s not as tricky or complicated as Ratigan’s methods but it is faster and more of a sure fire way to kill Tinker Bell who again has survived a pretty big explosion.

28 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Plus Ratigan is the World's Greatest Criminal Mind. He shows us a willingness to do the prep work to achieve his goals. He can do the homework about Fairy Weakenesses (Lack of Belief, Drowning) and use that to his advantage as well.

 

Yeah but the thing about prep work is that it often takes time to do your research, set up the traps and then wait for Tink to come to you. And in that time Dominator could either send out her drones to take out Tinker Bell, personally take the Lost Boys or the other fairies hostage to force Tinker Bell to come to her, or again blow up Never Land itself. Either way gets the job done much faster then Ratigan could hope to do.

32 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

I also do not know why you say Ratigan would not drown Tink. He has already drowned Widows and Orphans.

Dominator's plan is "I see something I blast it" and as you pointed out, blasting Tink is not very effective

Cause 1 trying to force to trap Tinker Bell near water will be a very difficult endeavor due to her flight, elusiveness, and the fact that again Ratigan said during the song he considered that crime to be too dull and boring and that he much prefers more extravagant and elaborate death traps for his victims. 

It’s more effective then wasting time trying to do research and set up traps that’ll take forever while your opponent is already tracking Tink down with weapons far more devastating then a early gunpowder bomb designed by a 19 century pirate. Again I’m not denying that Ratigan could develop a trap that could kill off Tink if given enough time, but the fact is that Dominator could accomplish her goal in half the time and with weapons guaranteed to pack enough punch to kill the fairy.

 

[Twogunkid]

7 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

I don’t mean to bring in real world examples but hasn’t the US carried out assassinations on known terrorist leaders via drone strikes that blow up entire villages? That’s not exactly subtle either and yet everyone defines that as assassinating a key target. So again Lord Dominator blowing up Never Land should be treated as a fair means of assassinating a target, it’s not as tricky or complicated as Ratigan’s methods but it is faster and more of a sure fire way to kill Tinker Bell who again has survived a pretty big explosion.

Yeah but the thing about prep work is that it often takes time to do your research, set up the traps and then wait for Tink to come to you. And in that time Dominator could either send out her drones to take out Tinker Bell, personally take the Lost Boys or the other fairies hostage to force Tinker Bell to come to her, or again blow up Never Land itself. Either way gets the job done much faster then Ratigan could hope to do.

Cause 1 trying to force to trap Tinker Bell near water will be a very difficult endeavor due to her flight, elusiveness, and the fact that again Ratigan said during the song he considered that crime to be too dull and boring and that he much prefers more extravagant and elaborate death traps for his victims. 

It’s more effective then wasting time trying to do research and set up traps that’ll take forever while your opponent is already tracking Tink down with weapons far more devastating then a early gunpowder bomb designed by a 19 century pirate. Again I’m not denying that Ratigan could develop a trap that could kill off Tink if given enough time, but the fact is that Dominator could accomplish her goal in half the time and with weapons guaranteed to pack enough punch to kill the fairy.

 

The weapons are not guaranteed to take out the Fairy. As you pointed out, she survives a massive explosion unscathed. Dominator's weapons of choice may be ineffectual against this magical being. Magical beings often have specific weaknesses, but they are otherwise invincible.

I'm sure Ratigan could devise a truly convoluted drowning scheme to pull on Tinkerbell. The scale of the crime is what is truly being discussed in "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind" as a way of upstaging what he has already done (including stealing the Crown jewels which has NEVER happened in real life barring an actual revolution and the English Civil War). The idea of trapping a slaying a mystical being.

 

As to the drone strikes as assassinations, you and I must run in different circles because I've always heard it as a drone strike not an assassination. I would say an assassination is a single target or a small cluster of targets. Would you say Grand Moff Tarkin assassinated Bail Organa? Because that is the scale that Lord Dominator runs in.

[Pizzaguy2995]

6 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

The weapons are not guaranteed to take out the Fairy. As you pointed out, she survives a massive explosion unscathed. Dominator's weapons of choice may be ineffectual against this magical being. Magical beings often have specific weaknesses, but they are otherwise invincible.

I'm sure Ratigan could devise a truly convoluted drowning scheme to pull on Tinkerbell. The scale of the crime is what is truly being discussed in "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind" as a way of upstaging what he has already done (including stealing the Crown jewels which has NEVER happened in real life barring an actual revolution and the English Civil War). The idea of trapping a slaying a mystical being.

 

As to the drone strikes as assassinations, you and I must run in different circles because I've always heard it as a drone strike not an assassination. I would say an assassination is a single target or a small cluster of targets. Would you say Grand Moff Tarkin assassinated Bail Organa? Because that is the scale that Lord Dominator runs in.

But as I also pointed out Dominator has abilities far more powerful then a simple early gunpowder era bomb. Like for example her ability to manipulate lava or ice. She can either burn Tinker Bell alive or freeze her to death. So even if you still wanna argue that her blowing up Never Land is too over the top to be considered an assassination (I will still argue otherwise though) she can still kill Tinker Bell in other ways. She’s also not above taking hostages like Peter, the Lost Boys or the other fairies to force Tinker Bell to come to her.

Most importantly though her methods will be much faster and more of a guarantee kill then hoping that Ratigan’s long and overly complicated plan works.

[Twogunkid]

Don't think Dominator's fire is a threat at all tbh considering Tink can effectively enflame herself.

Dominator has shown her primary weapon of choice to be fire. It's what her robots use too.

 

You know what you can't do when your opening move is nuking the planet? Rely on hostages later, so I don't think that's in her wheelhouse.

 

Dominator is too straightforward for this challenge.

[Pizzaguy2995]

13 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

Don't think Dominator's fire is a threat at all tbh considering Tink can effectively enflame herself.

Dominator has shown her primary weapon of choice to be fire. It's what her robots use too.

 

You know what you can't do when your opening move is nuking the planet? Rely on hostages later, so I don't think that's in her wheelhouse.

 

Dominator is too straightforward for this challenge.

It’s lava not fire TGK, and lava is decidedly much hotter then fire. And while yes she uses her magma more then her ice that’s mostly because she didn’t discover her ice powers until halfway through the second season. But that doesn’t mean she won’t be able to use it to kill Tink if she needs to.

Well again she’s taken hostages before, like during the finale when she held Wander hostage. Look your the one who says she shouldn’t be allowed to blow up Never Land now your saying she can? Which is it dude?

Too straightforward? Sorry I didn’t know that the rulebook of assassination said that every single kill has to be overly complicated with no less then 5 steps and needs at least several days to go into effect. Look slick I think your really overthinking what this scenario is requiring our villains to do. The challenge is very simple: Which villain can take the fairy out? How and why they do it are left very ambiguous, so I for one think any way is allowed from taking hostages, using drones or even blowing up Never Land itself. Sorry but there are no rules that say they aren’t allowed to do so.

[Twogunkid]

1 hour ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

It’s lava not fire TGK, and lava is decidedly much hotter then fire. And while yes she uses her magma more then her ice that’s mostly because she didn’t discover her ice powers until halfway through the second season. But that doesn’t mean she won’t be able to use it to kill Tink if she needs to.

Well again she’s taken hostages before, like during the finale when she held Wander hostage. Look your the one who says she shouldn’t be allowed to blow up Never Land now your saying she can? Which is it dude?

Too straightforward? Sorry I didn’t know that the rulebook of assassination said that every single kill has to be overly complicated with no less then 5 steps and needs at least several days to go into effect. Look slick I think your really overthinking what this scenario is requiring our villains to do. The challenge is very simple: Which villain can take the fairy out? How and why they do it are left very ambiguous, so I for one think any way is allowed from taking hostages, using drones or even blowing up Never Land itself. Sorry but there are no rules that say they aren’t allowed to do so.

I was taking your point, saying she nukes the site from orbit. When that doesn't work, what then? She's not smart enough to do the legwork on how to threaten Tink. She had plenty of time to observe Wander for a whole season. It was not her doing research but more learning as Wander got in her way.

I just feel that a nuclear option isn't really an assassination.

[Pizzaguy2995]

2 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

I was taking your point, saying she nukes the site from orbit. When that doesn't work, what then? She's not smart enough to do the legwork on how to threaten Tink. She had plenty of time to observe Wander for a whole season. It was not her doing research but more learning as Wander got in her way.

I just feel that a nuclear option isn't really an assassination.

Well I mean if Tinker Bell survives a nuke from orbit then I for one would give up at that point lol.

Seriously though, let’s just assume for arguments sake that blowing up Never Land is against the rules and Dominator knows that from the start, again she has other options: send her Dominator-Bots after Tink. Even if they can’t kill her they can always capture Tinker Bell on their special handcuffs and bring her to Dominator. She and her Bots can also try taking Tinker Bell’s friends hostage to force her to come to them. Again she took Wander prisoner at the series finale surely she can do the same for the Lost Boys or the other fairies. Lord Dominator again has the option of burning Tink alive with her lava or freezing her to death with her ice. Heck Never Land is an island in the middle of an ocean, they’ll be plenty of water for if Dominator wants to try drowning Tink. Again Dominator has plenty of ways to kill Tinker Bell and most importantly she’ll be able to get to her long before Ratigan will be able to.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Lord Dominator: 5
Professor Ratigan: 4