12:16 - Zombies (World War Z) vs. Stormtroopers

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 16

Zombies (World War Z)

Slot: The Team's Cannon Fodder
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 2
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Zombies (World War Z) at Wikipedia
Official Site: Paramount Pictures

Stormtroopers

Slot: The Team's Cannon Fodder
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Stormtroopers at Wikipedia
Official Site: Lucasfilm LTD

Battle Terrain
Cannon Fodder Challenge: King of the Hill

[Twogunkid]

Oh the troopers have to take this one. Setting up a defensive perimeter and then laying down blaster fire, thermal detonators and the like. Throw in armor that covers from head to toe and the time viral infection will otherwise take against the more advanced medical immunizations of the troopers (as seen in the Thrawn novel where Thrawn does receive several inoculations as part of joining the Empire._ the Troopers should be able to hold the hill longer. Troopers also have their own onboard airsupply which means viral infection is very unlikely.

 

Added bonus, the Troopers are smarter than the Zombies and can understand the game better.

[Pizzaguy2995]

Sadly the Stormtroopers tactics and training will work against them here. They’ll be focused on getting all their troops to the top of the hill first and that’ll only draw the zombies towards the scenarios objective as well as trap the Troopers on top of the hill in a Custer’s Last Stand scenario. Also the Troopers natural inaccuracies with their weapons plus their inability to adept when the battle turns against them will further play right into the zombies hands and allow them to swarm the Stormtroopers before they have time to react.

Now one could argue that the Troopers being covered head to toe with armor would keep them safe from the zombie bites. But here’s the problem with Stormtrooper armor: their designed to protect them from blasters and liters nothing else. During the Battle of Endor the Ewoks were able to pierce their armor with bow and arrows and through just smashing their heads in with rocks! If a tiny Ewok can break through the armor with arrows and rocks then you better believe the much stronger zombies will tear through that armor!

[Twogunkid]

13 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Sadly the Stormtroopers tactics and training will work against them here. They’ll be focused on getting all their troops to the top of the hill first and that’ll only draw the zombies towards the scenarios objective as well as trap the Troopers on top of the hill in a Custer’s Last Stand scenario. Also the Troopers natural inaccuracies with their weapons plus their inability to adept when the battle turns against them will further play right into the zombies hands and allow them to swarm the Stormtroopers before they have time to react.

Now one could argue that the Troopers being covered head to toe with armor would keep them safe from the zombie bites. But here’s the problem with Stormtrooper armor: their designed to protect them from blasters and liters nothing else. During the Battle of Endor the Ewoks were able to pierce their armor with bow and arrows and through just smashing their heads in with rocks! If a tiny Ewok can break through the armor with arrows and rocks then you better believe the much stronger zombies will tear through that armor!

Judge Ewoks by their size do you? And where you should not.

Their body weight to strength ratio is really high. Based on the size of the rocks they are hurling around they are more comparable to other apes than humanoids. Zombies running in a straight line at them do not compare to Ewoks who A. Set tons of Vietcong style traps, B. Engaged in hit and run tactics including a false retreat to get the Troopers to enter their traps, C. Made extensive use of poison in the battle, D. Have a substantially smaller hitbox, natural camouflage, and familiarity with the terrain and E. Had severe numerical superiority on the Troopers and suffered heavy casualties (See Star Wars: Aftermath)

Even with Zombie strength a bite is less force delivered than an arrow. The novelization even states that the arrows only really penetrated at the armor joints. The zombie's human teeth are not going to do much there.

Further, Trooper Accuracy against anyone who isn't a main character is really good. Look at Hoth and the Tantive IV. The troopers easily mow down the rebel soldiers.

Your Zombies are more akin to Battledroids charging mindlessly forward which Stormtroopers even used for training.

 

Some troopers secure the area, others use their grappling hooks to gain the high ground (a proven wincon in Star Wars) and they set up killzones. A standard troopers blaster is more than a match for a zombie and that is without other support weapons a stormtrooper platoon would have like an E-Web, Thermal Detonators, and Troopers with rocket launchers.

[Pizzaguy2995]

6 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Judge Ewoks by their size do you? And where you should not.

Their body weight to strength ratio is really high. Based on the size of the rocks they are hurling around they are more comparable to other apes than humanoids. Zombies running in a straight line at them do not compare to Ewoks who A. Set tons of Vietcong style traps, B. Engaged in hit and run tactics including a false retreat to get the Troopers to enter their traps, C. Made extensive use of poison in the battle, D. Have a substantially smaller hitbox, natural camouflage, and familiarity with the terrain and E. Had severe numerical superiority on the Troopers and suffered heavy casualties (See Star Wars: Aftermath)

Even with Zombie strength a bite is less force delivered than an arrow. The novelization even states that the arrows only really penetrated at the armor joints. The zombie's human teeth are not going to do much there.

WWZ zombies are strong strength wise too my friend. Throughout the movie we’ve seen them smash through car windows with just their fists, tear through boarded up steel doors, and push open a door barricaded by an overturned snack dispenser. Their strength is clearly above mere humanoids as well. So if they get close I can see them tearing through the Troopers armor pretty easily, or they can just bite through the armor’s joints, the part of their armor only covered by a thin black leather. 

Also I guarantee the Ewoks can’t run as fast as a running zombie. Those guys are basically Usain Bolt if he never tired and never quiet coming after you. They’ll be able to cover the distance up the hill much faster then any Ewok or rebel would. 

18 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Further, Trooper Accuracy against anyone who isn't a main character is really good. Look at Hoth and the Tantive IV. The troopers easily mow down the rebel soldiers.

Your Zombies are more akin to Battledroids charging mindlessly forward which Stormtroopers even used for training.

Yeah but you gotta admit the majority of the time the Troopers aren’t very accurate with their shots. Check out them vs Luke and Han on the Death Star, or the Battle of Endor, or even against the blind Chirrut Imwe at point blank range. Keep in mind Chirrut is not force sensitive so you can’t just say that he’s augmenting his speed with the force:

Furthermore the Stormtroopers will be further disadvantaged by the fact they won’t know that only head shots can kill zombies, they’ll start out aiming for the center body mass due to it being the easier target and likely won’t realize that can’t kill them until the zombies are right on top of them!

[Twogunkid]

6 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

WWZ zombies are strong strength wise too my friend. Throughout the movie we’ve seen them smash through car windows with just their fists, tear through boarded up steel doors, and push open a door barricaded by an overturned snack dispenser. Their strength is clearly above mere humanoids as well. So if they get close I can see them tearing through the Troopers armor pretty easily, or they can just bite through the armor’s joints, the part of their armor only covered by a thin black leather. 

Also I guarantee the Ewoks can’t run as fast as a running zombie. Those guys are basically Usain Bolt if he never tired and never quiet coming after you. They’ll be able to cover the distance up the hill much faster then any Ewok or rebel would. 

Yeah but you gotta admit the majority of the time the Troopers aren’t very accurate with their shots. Check out them vs Luke and Han on the Death Star, or the Battle of Endor, or even against the blind Chirrut Imwe at point blank range. Keep in mind Chirrut is not force sensitive so you can’t just say that he’s augmenting his speed with the force:

Furthermore the Stormtroopers will be further disadvantaged by the fact they won’t know that only head shots can kill zombies, they’ll start out aiming for the center body mass due to it being the easier target and likely won’t realize that can’t kill them until the zombies are right on top of them!

Chirrut is not force sensitive, but he does have supernatural abilities courtesy of his practice of Zama-Shiwo.

 

The zombies may be the physical superiors of Stormtroopers but a combination of ranged weaponry and a willingness to use terrain is going to help them hold ground. Furthermore, a regular human being can punch through a car windshield. They may not like the resulting glass-hand combo, but they can do it.

Even though they will open with blasters, once the zombies close to thermal detonator range, they are going to use them. And being vaporized is a good way to deal with hordes of zombies.

Their armor again is really only vulnerable at the joints

"You're late," Qorl said. He cocked his droid arm back-and hurled the deadly weapon at Norys with all the strength in his robotic servomotors!

Norys stood astonished as the deadly spearpoint hurtled toward his chest plate. He just had time to cry "Hey!" in a panicked voice amplified by his helmet speakers before the barbed tip impacted squarely with enough force to smash him backward.

Norys slammed into the wall, his helmet ringing against the hard metal bulkhead. His vision sparkled with impending unconsciousness. He expected to see a spear sprouting from his heart and waited for his nerves to send shouts of mortal pain. He wanted to scream that Qorl, his supposed teacher, had betrayed him, murdered him. But a split second later his thoughts cleared enough to hear the clatter as the spear shaft fell harmlessly to the floor. He looked down at his chest in amazement and saw only a nick in the white armor where the spear had struck."

- Taken from Star Wars Young Jedi Knights 4: Lightsabers

A super strong droid fails to penetrate the armor. The Zombies are not going to have any more luck.

"The creatures came at him from the front, side, and behind. Norys turned, remembering to think, point, aim, and shoot. He eliminated another creature.

Two more emerged from the ceiling, but Norys swiveled at the waist and forced himself to concentrate. One of the two struck from behind, though its claws skittered off Norys's white stormtrooper armor. He ignored it as he set the second mynock firmly in his sights and shot it."

- Taken from Star Wars Young Jedi Knights 4: Lightsabers"

And though Zombies may punch harders, Troopers are not without a few melee options of their own.

"Arm Segments- Forearm segments are reinforced to intercept vibroblades in close combat. With an optional modification, the gloves can deliver stun shocks.

- Taken from The Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide"

Further the zombies are infected humans. The stun setting on blasters overloads the nervous system which the Zombies should be vulnerable to still. The troopers have a versatile enough kit and the edge in military training, range, and ability to deal with hordes of zombies that they can take this.

[Pizzaguy2995]

5 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

The zombies may be the physical superiors of Stormtroopers but a combination of ranged weaponry and a willingness to use terrain is going to help them hold ground. Furthermore, a regular human being can punch through a car windshield. They may not like the resulting glass-hand combo, but they can do it.

Even though they will open with blasters, once the zombies close to thermal detonator range, they are going to use them. And being vaporized is a good way to deal with hordes of zombies.

Their armor again is really only vulnerable at the joints

"You're late," Qorl said. He cocked his droid arm back-and hurled the deadly weapon at Norys with all the strength in his robotic servomotors!

Norys stood astonished as the deadly spearpoint hurtled toward his chest plate. He just had time to cry "Hey!" in a panicked voice amplified by his helmet speakers before the barbed tip impacted squarely with enough force to smash him backward.

Norys slammed into the wall, his helmet ringing against the hard metal bulkhead. His vision sparkled with impending unconsciousness. He expected to see a spear sprouting from his heart and waited for his nerves to send shouts of mortal pain. He wanted to scream that Qorl, his supposed teacher, had betrayed him, murdered him. But a split second later his thoughts cleared enough to hear the clatter as the spear shaft fell harmlessly to the floor. He looked down at his chest in amazement and saw only a nick in the white armor where the spear had struck."

- Taken from Star Wars Young Jedi Knights 4: Lightsabers

My point still stands though, once up close the zombies will either through the Troopers armor with their hands or bite through the weak spots in their joints. And the big thing to remember is that WWZ zombies is that it only takes 12 seconds for someone to turn into a zombie once bitten. That’s gonna be huge for a scenario like this cause the Stormtroopers are so used to fighting as a disciplined and organized unit that once some of their own men suddenly turn on them I think that’ll really shock them and lead to much panic and discord amongst the remaining troops.

And sorry but thermal detonators I feel won’t be the game charger you think they’ll be. The zombies are really fast so unless some of the Stormtroopers are willing to do a kamikaze like attack I don’t see too many zombies getting caught in the blast range.

5 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

A super strong droid fails to penetrate the armor. The Zombies are not going to have any more luck.

"The creatures came at him from the front, side, and behind. Norys turned, remembering to think, point, aim, and shoot. He eliminated another creature.

Two more emerged from the ceiling, but Norys swiveled at the waist and forced himself to concentrate. One of the two struck from behind, though its claws skittered off Norys's white stormtrooper armor. He ignored it as he set the second mynock firmly in his sights and shot it."

- Taken from Star Wars Young Jedi Knights 4: Lightsabers"

 

Eh I haven’t seen a droid tear through a steel door before.

5 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

And though Zombies may punch harders, Troopers are not without a few melee options of their own.

"Arm Segments- Forearm segments are reinforced to intercept vibroblades in close combat. With an optional modification, the gloves can deliver stun shocks.

- Taken from The Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide"

Further the zombies are infected humans. The stun setting on blasters overloads the nervous system which the Zombies should be vulnerable to still. The troopers have a versatile enough kit and the edge in military training, range, and ability to deal with hordes of zombies that they can take this.

The thing is once the zombies get close enough I absolutely see getting a bite out the trooper before it realizes it needs to stab the head in order to kill it. And by that point it’ll be too late.

And correction: their infected dead humans. Their nervous system is no longer functioning at that point, that’s why they feel no pain when punching through a glass window or recoil even when stabbed or shot at. So I think setting their blasters on stun will be the absolute worst move for the Stormtroopers. It’d be like trying to take down a zombie with a taser, like their dead they literally can’t feel pain like that anymore.

Again I really think in a situation like this their training will ultimately work against them. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Stormtrooper training seek to actively discourage individualism and creativity in favor of almost mindless obedience to order and the chain of command? Well that mindset will not be useful against zombies because most of the troops won’t be thinking about how shots to the enemies chest area doesn’t seem to be working or how it might be a better idea to fall back rather then let the zombies surround and trap them. Their training to be thoughtless and passionless weapons of the emperor will ultimately make them very poor zombie fighters. 

 

[Twogunkid]

4 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

My point still stands though, once up close the zombies will either through the Troopers armor with their hands or bite through the weak spots in their joints. And the big thing to remember is that WWZ zombies is that it only takes 12 seconds for someone to turn into a zombie once bitten. That’s gonna be huge for a scenario like this cause the Stormtroopers are so used to fighting as a disciplined and organized unit that once some of their own men suddenly turn on them I think that’ll really shock them and lead to much panic and discord amongst the remaining troops.

And sorry but thermal detonators I feel won’t be the game charger you think they’ll be. The zombies are really fast so unless some of the Stormtroopers are willing to do a kamikaze like attack I don’t see too many zombies getting caught in the blast range.

 

IIRC that is knocking a door of it's hinges, not punching through steel

But Troopers are totally ready to die to take out the enemy

Qorl's arm does punch through a rebel (New Republic) security droid chest, so it punches through durasteel more than meeting your steel punching requirement when he goes to take out Admiral Ackbar who gets choked out by said arm and spared death due to squeamishness about killing unconscious targets.

 

If the zombies are moving their nervous system has to function in someway. Meaning the stunblast should affect them. Further your point to head shots only highlights the nervous system still functioning. Why would a headshot matter if the nervous system doesn't function? Their pain receptors may not work, but the stun setting overloads the nervous system. No commands in or out going through there, so it should disable the zombies.

[C.T.]

For what it’s worth, Stormtroopers did pretty shitty against zombies. Death Troopers, anyone?

[Twogunkid]

Do not doubt the force of the Stormtroopers vs Zombies

[Pizzaguy2995]

10 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

Do not doubt the force of the Stormtroopers vs Zombies

Hey wait a minute I’ve played Ultimate Epic Battle Simulator several times and Stormtroopers aren’t a faction in it! It looks like someone just customized the Tornado Troopers to look like Stormtroopers. Sorry but that definitely isn’t a canon work. Also like C.T. the Star Wars novel Death Troopers already showed us what would happen if the Stormtroopers encountered zombies and it doesn’t end well for the Troopers.

[Twogunkid]

1 hour ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Hey wait a minute I’ve played Ultimate Epic Battle Simulator several times and Stormtroopers aren’t a faction in it! It looks like someone just customized the Tornado Troopers to look like Stormtroopers. Sorry but that definitely isn’t a canon work. Also like C.T. the Star Wars novel Death Troopers already showed us what would happen if the Stormtroopers encountered zombies and it doesn’t end well for the Troopers.

I know it was more for fun.

 

As to the Legends novel Death Troopers, an Imperial Star Destroyer is a contained environment where the troopers are more likely to have taken off their helmets and breathed in the air. Not like a combat situation where they will be on their built in supply to that end,  (That can be seen as recently as the Book of Boba Fett) the outbreak infected almost all the crew immediately, but 30 troopers were able to hold out against 46,700 Imperial Zombies including 9,700 zombie troopers for over 10 WEEKS. Further the Zombies of that novel were clever enough to disable a tractor beam and to board shuttlecraft with the intent of hunting prey as well as use blasters. Those were zombies with guns and the ability to operate machinery. Far more advanced than the WWZ zombies. The whole end plot of the novel is disabling the Star Destroyer's bridge so the zombies do not go anywhere. Further, they operate on a weird principle and that the closer they are to the source of the outbreak the harder they are to kill. The outbreak was on said Star Destroyer and the zombies were near invincible even to the likes of Han Solo and Chewbacca, but died to regular blaster fire away from the source.   Death Troopers Zombies >>> WWZ Zombies.

So based on the novel you guys want to use, 30 troopers can hold out against roughly 1,500 x their number for almost three months without most of their kit on hand.

The Troopers as have been pointed out are unlikely to be gotten through a viral infection due to their sealed air supply. The trooper's mesh body suit (which is similar to a modern flight suit and still will provide protection) is the only vulnerability in their armor to the bites and even then just at the fingers, elbow, armpits, knees, and the neck if the trooper happens to be looking up. Their armor will protect them against bites, and further, now in the novel it takes a little less than a full day for a bitten victim to turn which should be plenty of time for the Troopers to have won the day.

To the weaponry, since the stun setting turns off the nervous system by overloading it, it should still work on zombies as they clearly have a functional nervous system to send commands to things like hands and mouths and feet. They do not have functioning pain receptors, but a stun blaster does not operate through pain. Ignoring the stun setting a blaster is a bolt of plasma, it is going to be far more effective than primitive slug throwing weapons against zombies and you will get the effective of burning piles of corpses as the zombies rush forward over their fallen compatriots into even more oncoming fire taking damage from both blaster and burning bodies. Or if that isn't working for the trusty E-11's (the trooper's sidearm mind you)

"Power output can be varied on most models; the highest setting on most blasters will vaporize any material short of carbon-fiber reinforced durasteel.

- Taken from Tech Journal 2 Imperial Forces"

Vaporizing is an effective anti-zombie weapon.

The trooper's battle weapon will either be a DLT-19 (the Blaster equivalent of an LMG, what Han carries and hands off to Chewie in Episode 4), T-21 Repeating Rifles or their sniper variant, missile launchers, or a repeating pistol and used a heavier variant of the E-11.

A trooper platoon will carry a few troopers with an E-Web (as seen at the Battle of Hoth basically a heavy autocannon) and mortars (seen in the Battle of Scariff) and so all possesses a good deal of heavier weaponry to mow down mindless hordes. The troopers establish a defensive perimeter and kill zones for mortars, thermal detonators, and E-Webs, and they've got the hill secured.

  Throw in that Stormtrooper Commanders are known to have personal shields which anything short of blasters and thermal detonators are not a threat to, it is entirely possible the commander can stage a last stand by his or herself and hold.  A standard charge from the powerpack on a trooper backpack will last 240 hours granted that is minimal life support, scanning, and communication, not with the shield up. Assuming the shield lasts 1/20th as long as full charge, 12 hours should be a long time for the commander to mow down some zombies even if the zombies by some miracle overcome all the other tremendous odds.

[C.T.]

1 hour ago, Twogunkid said:

So based on the novel you guys want to use, 30 troopers can hold out against roughly 1,500 x their number for almost three months without most of their kit on hand

…but that’s because they locked themselves in a shuttle and stayed put? They weren’t out fighting, running and gunning through the halls like you make it sound, they were hiding their asses in a armored locked ship. And also, 30 of them didn’t hold out for 3 months, since by that time there was only six left, with them killing and eating each other just to stave off death from starvation. So 6 did manage to last that time, but it wasn’t through being badass.

Granted, yeah, DT zombies are smarter than WWZ zombies and in enough numbers can learn to utilize blasters and pilot ships and stuff, so, fair point.

[Twogunkid]

43 minutes ago, C.T. said:

…but that’s because they locked themselves in a shuttle and stayed put? They weren’t out fighting, running and gunning through the halls like you make it sound, they were hiding their asses in a armored locked ship. And also, 30 of them didn’t hold out for 3 months, since by that time there was only six left, with them killing and eating each other just to stave off death from starvation. So 6 did manage to last that time, but it wasn’t through being badass.

Granted, yeah, DT zombies are smarter than WWZ zombies and in enough numbers can learn to utilize blasters and pilot ships and stuff, so, fair point.

Even if they are fortifying and holding, it speaks favorably for the troopers even if as food runs out they had to eat each other. Plus this challenge would best be suited to fortifying and holding a position.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Zombies (World War Z): 5
Stormtroopers: 6