12:17 - Goblins vs. Stormtroopers

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 17

Goblins

Slot: The Team's Cannon Fodder
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Goblins at Wikipedia
Official Site: Public Domain

Stormtroopers

Slot: The Team's Cannon Fodder
Season Wins: 4
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Stormtroopers at Wikipedia
Official Site: Lucasfilm LTD

Battle Terrain
Cannon Fodder Challenge: Medieval Reenactment

[Culwych1]

Goblins for the win as they are best suited to a medieval reenactment! It is their most common setting. 

[Twogunkid]

Goblins may have weapon experience, but Troopers are deployed in anti-riot duty with shields and electroclubs. The Vibroblade is also part of their training. Throw in superior discipline and experience with mounts (swoop bikes) the Troopers put on a better show than a disorganized Goblin rabble.

[Culwych1]

21 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Goblins may have weapon experience, but Troopers are deployed in anti-riot duty with shields and electroclubs. The Vibroblade is also part of their training. Throw in superior discipline and experience with mounts (swoop bikes) the Troopers put on a better show than a disorganized Goblin rabble.

The Goblins will have even more experience wielding actual swords and shields, riding actual horses (and caring/preparing them), and they work perfectly well as a unit as well. And depending on what type of medieval this is... their wizards could even put on some magic displays if necessary. 

[Twogunkid]

To have a successful re-enactment the goblins need to actually organize themselves. Goblins have repeatedly shown themselves to be incapable of this in media.  Stormtroopers are organized to begin with. And de-electrifying their clubs and de-vibroing their blades, the troopers have experience with melee weapons. They also exist in a universe with energy bows and crossbows so there is familiarity with that as well.

 

[Culwych1]

6 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

To have a successful re-enactment the goblins need to actually organize themselves. Goblins have repeatedly shown themselves to be incapable of this in media.  Stormtroopers are organized to begin with. And de-electrifying their clubs and de-vibroing their blades, the troopers have experience with melee weapons. They also exist in a universe with energy bows and crossbows so there is familiarity with that as well.

 

Ooh, I'd forgotten about bows as well. Again Goblins will have experience of those in spades. 

Agree that the Stormtroopers may have some limited experience, but their go to weapons are not the actual weapons that Goblins use. 

In terms of organising, Goblins can be organised. They operate in tribes, war parties, hunting parties and more.

The Stormtroopers may be able to march in a line a bit better, but as we can see from the photo of the scenario, this is a reenactment.  Goblins will have witnessed the actual thing, maybe even have actually taken part in it.

Experience of weapons and of the medieval environment, and the ability to reproduce this effectively win the day

[Twogunkid]

2 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Ooh, I'd forgotten about bows as well. Again Goblins will have experience of those in spades. 

Agree that the Stormtroopers may have some limited experience, but their go to weapons are not the actual weapons that Goblins use. 

In terms of organising, Goblins can be organised. They operate in tribes, war parties, hunting parties and more.

The Stormtroopers may be able to march in a line a bit better, but as we can see from the photo of the scenario, this is a reenactment.  Goblins will have witnessed the actual thing, maybe even have actually taken part in it.

Experience of weapons and of the medieval environment, and the ability to reproduce this effectively win the day

"You're a quick one," a voice said from behind him. Luke whirled around to find himself face-to-face with a white-armored face mask. "Not quick enough."

The stormtrooper raised a force pike and jabbed him in the chest. Luke's body shuddered uncontrollably as the electric shock blazed through him. There was an explosion of pain, and his legs collapsed beneath him. The massive shock paralyzed his nervous system. He lay on his back, unable to move, staring up at the stormtrooper. Helpless.

Luke prepared himself to die.

The force pike struck again.

More pain.

And then, only darkness."

- Taken from Rebel Force 1: Target.

A trooper took down Luke Skywalker with a pike, doesn't get much more old school than that.

[Culwych1]

 

22 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

"You're a quick one," a voice said from behind him. Luke whirled around to find himself face-to-face with a white-armored face mask. "Not quick enough."

The stormtrooper raised a force pike and jabbed him in the chest. Luke's body shuddered uncontrollably as the electric shock blazed through him. There was an explosion of pain, and his legs collapsed beneath him. The massive shock paralyzed his nervous system. He lay on his back, unable to move, staring up at the stormtrooper. Helpless.

Luke prepared himself to die.

The force pike struck again.

More pain.

And then, only darkness."

- Taken from Rebel Force 1: Target.

A trooper took down Luke Skywalker with a pike, doesn't get much more old school than that.

I'm not convinved that a force pike that gives an electric shock when you jab someone compares at all to a medieval pike or sword. If the Stormtroopers are going around jabbing people and expecting electricity to make that person's legs collapse then its going to be a pretty poor reenactment. 

Something with no blade: 

Isn't quite the same as this: 

I'm giving the Goblins this one in that they'll have used the actual weapons: 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

It's not as if swords and spears take a life-time of experience to master in the capacity of medieval warfare. Each individual soldier only needs to have relatively basic proficiency in order to take out most opponents. Things like military discipline, strategy, and physical strength are equally if not more important. That said, Goblins are often a threat in the worlds they inhabit, worlds which usually consist of large standing medieval armies, so you would have to think they have some level of discipline, strategy, etc. Most goblins I know use hit-and-run tactics, traps, sneak attacks, and numerical advantages to their advantage. If they're forced to actually stand and fight in an open field, they lose a lot of their usual tactics in most media I've seen. I'm torn on this one

[Culwych1]

1 hour ago, Peypeypeypey said:

It's not as if swords and spears take a life-time of experience to master in the capacity of medieval warfare. Each individual soldier only needs to have relatively basic proficiency in order to take out most opponents. 

Perhaps - but for the sake of a reenactment experience counts for a lot. Put a sword in someone's hand who is a trained figher with experience of battles with a sword, versus someone who us used to holding a blaster rifle and a difference will quickly become apparant. The same for pikes and other medieval weapons. 

Even more so if this reenactment uses bows and arrows, which a lot do. If there is a group of archers in each then the Goblins will by far be better trained. 

 

[Twogunkid]

The general premise of how to fight with a pike is the same regardless. The electro- clubs work exactly the same as other blunt weapons and the vibro blade without vibrating is still a blade. The troopers have training in sufficient melee weapon training to be proficient and certainly the discipline to properly showcase traditional pike and shot formations and the like.

 

In addition, if we want to get snippy, Stormtroopers are human and goblins are small and humanlike. Goblins typically are hunched over and tiny and their posture may make mimicking human medieval forms difficult or impossible possibly due to sheer physics. A 10-20 foot pike is a problem for them to space their hands out properly, in addition, the longbow is an impossibility as would the length is simply too much for their armspan.

The weight of the pike is not a problem (between 6-14 pounds depending on when we draw from), but the draw strength of a bow is.

The draw weight of a longbow is believed to be between 80-160 pounds (we do not have any real way to test beyond what was recoverd on the Mary Rose which suggests a warbow has a higher draw of 130-150 pounds) The average Goblin according to our friends at Wizards of the Coast is approximately 60 pounds.

Mark Stretton holds the world record for bow draw at 200 pounds at full draw. While it is conceivable you might have a very large Goblin or two capable of using a flight bow a full war bow is out of the question.

[DSkillz]

I'm kinda leaning toward the Goblins here. As mentioned, they have more experience with actual medieval gear, and odds are that both teams would have custom-fit medieval gear to use. 

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Goblins: 7
Stormtroopers: 2