13:7 - Broken Tusk Predator vs. Daffy Duck

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 13, ROUND 7

Broken Tusk Predator

Slot: The Team's Hunter
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Broken Tusk Predator at this Wiki
Official Site: Twentieth Century Fox

Daffy Duck

Slot: The Team's Anthropromophic Animal
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Daffy Duck at this Wiki
Official Site: Warner Bros.

Battle Terrain
Hunter vs. Hunted: Mirror Maze

[RakaiThwei]

Okay... I DO NOT like this pull. I absolutely HATE this pull, because this is going to be a repeat of Ghost Predator vs Daffy Duck in this same scenario here. However, I might as well fight for my guy here, Broken Tusk.

Unlike Ghost Predator, who is confirmed to be an inexperienced Young Blood by both the writers of Predator 2, Jim and John Thomas and audio commentary by Sean Keyes of OWLF and Stargazer in Predator: Hunting Grounds, carbon dating was done on the severed half of Ghost's arm and was confirmed to be an adolescent-- Broken Tusk aka Dachande is NOT an Adolescent Yautja who suffers from inexperience.

So... let's say Dachande deems Daffy interesting enough (which canonically speaking, he wouldn't but... let's say he did here).

Dachande is a seasoned and wise Hunter who puts skill above weaponry and technology. He believes that any Hunter can take a plasma based weapon and fire it off, but it takes a skilled and well trained Hunter to go in with either blades or bare hands to take down dangerous prey. As a matter of fact, he's even known in his own clan to have successfully killed a Xenomorph with his bare hands along with a Xenomorph Queen and took their skulls as trophies. He's also one of the few Predators who HASN'T been killed by a human. So unlike most Predators who take a more brute and visceral approach to dealing with his prey, Broken Tusk is someone who values skill, precision, timing, technique, speed and patience.

Yes, Daffy Duck has insane toon force for him. Yes, he seemingly cannot be killed by conventional means. But unlike Ghost, who is all about the quick kill, who is all about the visceral bloodshed and ripping.... Broken Tusk will be silent, he will be patient, he will LEARN and assess about Daffy before going, and attempting to deal with the Looney Tune character. That's the kind of Yautja who he is.

I think Dachande will be satisfied in claiming Daffy's head even if it is still alive. It would make for an interesting trophy.

However... All of that is just for the sake of the debate of this match... I KNOW I am more than likely going to lose this. I KNOW people like Daffy more than Broken Tusk. I KNOW they're going to go with Daffy...

But if we're going to consider personalities.... from the get go... Daffy wouldn't really be considered interesting enough to hunt, and this is canonically speakingly (or rather... in-universe analysis of Dachande's personality, if he knows he can win any fight, he won't accept it. According to him, uncertainty is necessary for it to be a challenge worth taking).

[Pizzaguy2995]

Yeah sorry Rakai but this is just gonna be a repeat of the Daffy vs Ghost Predator match. Sorry again it had to be this way.

[RakaiThwei]

24 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Yeah sorry Rakai but this is just gonna be a repeat of the Daffy vs Ghost Predator match. Sorry again it had to be this way.

[Sighs] I know... I know...

Fuck this draft tourney... Just fuck this one.

[DSkillz]

As I mentioned, Daffy does have weaknesses compared to others with powerful toon force. It may just take the right match-up and/or terrain to exploit them. 

Not sure Dachande has either going for him here. 

[RakaiThwei]

5 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

As I mentioned, Daffy does have weaknesses compared to others with powerful toon force. It may just take the right match-up and/or terrain to exploit them. 

Not sure Dachande has either going for him here. 

The thing is with Dachande is that he is NOT your average Predator, and is arguably one of the BEST Predators to ever grace the realm of fiction solely for his wisdom, skill, strength, instinct and intuition of the hunt as well as his talent with bladed weapons, reliance on natural senses, emphasis on movement (one of his trademark quotes is "Move well... or die") and emphasis on LEARNING from the prey and keeping an open mind to new information to become a better Hunter.

[Pizzaguy2995]

4 hours ago, DSkillz said:

As I mentioned, Daffy does have weaknesses compared to others with powerful toon force. It may just take the right match-up and/or terrain to exploit them. 

Not sure Dachande has either going for him here. 

I mean you say that but honestly how many people not named Bugs Bunny have ever gotten the best of Daffy? I get that his matchups with Bugs are more memorable but almost every other matchup (especially in the 70s-80s) Daffy usually wins.

Plus there is also the trump card that this scenario specifically requires Dachande to “finish the hunt” which I interpret as needing to kill Daffy, which given Daffy’s toon force durability will be next to impossible.

[RakaiThwei]

2 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

I mean you say that but honestly how many people not named Bugs Bunny have ever gotten the best of Daffy? I get that his matchups with Bugs are more memorable but almost every other matchup (especially in the 70s-80s) Daffy usually wins.

Plus there is also the trump card that this scenario specifically requires Dachande to “finish the hunt” which I interpret as needing to kill Daffy, which given Daffy’s toon force durability will be next to impossible.

I mean, the way I look at it... He could just be satisfied with just cutting off Daffy's head, and taking back the head even though it's still alive.

Not gonna lie, most match up against Looney Tunes characters is like... 90% lopsided cause of the very nature of Looney Tune characters.

Anyway....

[Cues Guts' theme from Berserk]

(No, that's not me but... It's a mood regarding this pull.)

[Culwych1]

Daffy has given up before, which I do think counts as a win. He "lost" in Rabbit Seasoning, effectively unable to deter Elmer from hunting him instead of Bugs. In a mirror maze, with a hunter who won't give up, he may well hold up a white flag and surrender just to get out. Which could count as a win for the Predator. I don't think his usual tricks of creating a fake sign or switching holes is going to necessarily work in this instance.

[RakaiThwei]

18 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Which could count as a win for the Predator.

Do you know about Broken Tusk? Because for you to refer to him as "The Predator" suggest you might not know about him.

Allow me to introduce you to him.

 

[Culwych1]

1 hour ago, RakaiThwei said:

Do you know about Broken Tusk? Because for you to refer to him as "The Predator" suggest you might not know about him.

Allow me to introduce you to him.

 

Thanks, I might check those out later, but not necessarily looking to go deeper into the lore. The movies are ok but despite the appearance in some Judge Dredd comics, I haven't been all that into the other stuff. 

Surprised you jumped on that rather than my point about there being a possibility of Daffy conceding. 

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, Culwych1 said:

Surprised you jumped on that rather than my point about there being a possibility of Daffy conceding. 

Oh, I caught that and I appreciate you throwing Dachande a bit of a bone here.

I really feel like as if this could be a potential repeat of the last Predator who went up against Daffy in terms of the votes, especially considering that to a lot of people... a Predator is just a Predator, that they're generic that one could just be swapped out for the other and the result would be the same-- they all lose. And for so many years, it's that kind of mentality that I've been fighting.

I think that Dachande would definitely be persistent enough, skilled enough, with a refined level of technique, speed, precision and experience to give Daffy enough of a hard time. He's definitely not like Ghost who took a direct and rather brute force approach most of the time. Dachande is patient, he is willing to learn from his prey and maybe even incorporate what he has learned into experience and arsenal of techniques against his prey.

Yeah, granted... He might not be able to KILL Daffy because what can kill a Looney Tune? Well, there's The Dip chemical from Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but Dachande wouldn't know anything about that. So the best he could have to settle with is beating and cutting Daffy into submission or taking Daffy's severed head, which is definitely going to be still alive.

That's the most Dachande can hope to get out of fighting a Looney Tune.

[Pizzaguy2995]

8 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

Daffy has given up before, which I do think counts as a win. He "lost" in Rabbit Seasoning, effectively unable to deter Elmer from hunting him instead of Bugs. In a mirror maze, with a hunter who won't give up, he may well hold up a white flag and surrender just to get out. Which could count as a win for the Predator. I don't think his usual tricks of creating a fake sign or switching holes is going to necessarily work in this instance.

The win condition for this scenario is for the Broken Tusk Predator to “Finish the Hunt” which I interpret as him needing to kill Daffy. He can’t claim victory without killing Daffy and Daffy has survived a point blank planet explosion so that ain’t happening. And I definitely don’t think Daffy will let himself be killed just because the Hunter is extra persistent. 

Heck what makes you think Daffy isn’t equally as persistent? He’s been challenging Bugs to showdowns for nearly a century now and no matter how many times Bugs has won Daffy never gives up and always keeps coming back no matter how many knocks he takes. If anything the BT Pred is more likely to give up and leave once he realizes that Daffy is unkillable.

[RakaiThwei]

8 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

 And I definitely don’t think Daffy will let himself be killed just because the Hunter is extra persistent. 

Heck what makes you think Daffy isn’t equally as persistent?

Just these two parts... Sometimes in the Hunt, it's not just about persistence but also patience. Sometimes the two compliment each other really well. Dachande as far as I know from his comic book exploits and his novelization adaptation exploits-- has learned that patience really foes a long way in the hunt, and he had come a long way from a snot nosed Young Blood who thought he knew it all, and was ready to kill anyone who challenged him at the drop of a hat. But he now knows better that it's not always the best case to go diving into a situation which a Hunter doesn't know about first. A good warrior is always open to new information and incorporating it into their arsenal of skill and weaponry if they are more than capable of doing so. No longer is Dachande this Hunter who will kill at the first sign of disrespect, or even at the first sign of aggression, he's come too far as a Hunter to do that and even makes this a point to his pupils. He values instinct, wisdom and skill over weaponry in the hunt and usually opts to go for bladed type weapons over most plasma based weapons, save for the burner which is kind of like a handheld napalm sprayer.

Daffy is persistent in surviving, but the question is he patient enough to goad a Hunter who is more than experienced enough to not make that kind of rookie mistake? More than likely, he would inflict whatever wounds which he can on Daffy and even cause the Toon some serious amount of pain whenever he can, but recalling the Looney Tunes cartoons I have seen over the years on channel ABC in the morning and on Cartoon Network-- Daffy isn't exactly the most patient individual whatsoever, and at times even has fallen to the tactics of Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd, the latter often through his own shortsightedness or through Bugs' antics.

Dachande is both patient and persistent. A good balance of both, really.

18 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

If anything the BT Pred is more likely to give up and leave once he realizes that Daffy is unkillable.

This... is my problem with 90% of the CBUB database vs Looney Tunes.

Solely because of their insane level of Toon Force... Looney Tunes characters are practically guaranteed to win matches where their opponents are from some other realm of fiction and dependent on the set up. If ANYONE outside of the realm of Looney Tunes, or even Disney for that matter tries to go up against them, there's really no chance for them to win.

If anything, it should be a perquisite that if someone is going to fight a Looney Tune character, and the opposing character is going to be from any other realm of fiction, then they might have to be given The Dip to effectively fight a Looney Toon.

But regarding this match... I mean even if he can't kill Daffy, but he does bag him and tag him... or even decapitates him with his head removed from his body, but the head is still alive? Does that and can that still count as a win? Can we get @IKA's take on that?

[IKA]

5 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Just these two parts... Sometimes in the Hunt, it's not just about persistence but also patience. Sometimes the two compliment each other really well. Dachande as far as I know from his comic book exploits and his novelization adaptation exploits-- has learned that patience really foes a long way in the hunt, and he had come a long way from a snot nosed Young Blood who thought he knew it all, and was ready to kill anyone who challenged him at the drop of a hat. But he now knows better that it's not always the best case to go diving into a situation which a Hunter doesn't know about first. A good warrior is always open to new information and incorporating it into their arsenal of skill and weaponry if they are more than capable of doing so. No longer is Dachande this Hunter who will kill at the first sign of disrespect, or even at the first sign of aggression, he's come too far as a Hunter to do that and even makes this a point to his pupils. He values instinct, wisdom and skill over weaponry in the hunt and usually opts to go for bladed type weapons over most plasma based weapons, save for the burner which is kind of like a handheld napalm sprayer.

Daffy is persistent in surviving, but the question is he patient enough to goad a Hunter who is more than experienced enough to not make that kind of rookie mistake? More than likely, he would inflict whatever wounds which he can on Daffy and even cause the Toon some serious amount of pain whenever he can, but recalling the Looney Tunes cartoons I have seen over the years on channel ABC in the morning and on Cartoon Network-- Daffy isn't exactly the most patient individual whatsoever, and at times even has fallen to the tactics of Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd, the latter often through his own shortsightedness or through Bugs' antics.

Dachande is both patient and persistent. A good balance of both, really.

This... is my problem with 90% of the CBUB database vs Looney Tunes.

Solely because of their insane level of Toon Force... Looney Tunes characters are practically guaranteed to win matches where their opponents are from some other realm of fiction and dependent on the set up. If ANYONE outside of the realm of Looney Tunes, or even Disney for that matter tries to go up against them, there's really no chance for them to win.

If anything, it should be a perquisite that if someone is going to fight a Looney Tune character, and the opposing character is going to be from any other realm of fiction, then they might have to be given The Dip to effectively fight a Looney Toon.

But regarding this match... I mean even if he can't kill Daffy, but he does bag him and tag him... or even decapitates him with his head removed from his body, but the head is still alive? Does that and can that still count as a win? Can we get @IKA's take on that?

I do suppose some hunts would be just capturing. It's not really stated and thus definitely something you can use in the debate. I also do believe that though canonically a lot of these hunters don't have toon force gear that given their opponents they might have a reason to obtain such a thing. It can and has been show that even characters with toon force can be killed with dip, I see no reason that Predator couldn't obtain some. Not using it effectively is another matter entirely. 

 

I personally believe toon force characters are usually over hyped and aren't as unkillable as made out to be. But that's all up for debate. 

 

I hope that helps.

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, IKA said:

I do suppose some hunts would be just capturing. It's not really stated and thus definitely something you can use in the debate. I also do believe that though canonically a lot of these hunters don't have toon force gear that given their opponents they might have a reason to obtain such a thing. It can and has been show that even characters with toon force can be killed with dip, I see no reason that Predator couldn't obtain some. Not using it effectively is another matter entirely.

So Dachande CAN locate and capture Daffy as a means to win then... Okay. So now we know that he might not have to kill Daffy after all, meaning that Dachande can effectively put the pain on Daffy-- which he most certainly can and more than likely either take Daffy as a captive (unlikely as he isn't one of the Super Predators) or he could always just decapitate Daffy's still living head and mount on his wall, and point out to everyone in his clan the novelty of an undying trophy who seems to live a life of misery while mounted on the wall then. Okay, I could see that one counting as a win then.

As for the Dip, well... trying to figure out how Dachande would know about that IF we so much as count the Roger Rabbit movie as an arsenal to use this in the debate. The only way I can see this happening is if Dachande either finds out about The Dip through hearsay from Judge Doom and his Weasels, witnesses what it can do to these seemingly indestructible Toons, and later on laces his bladed weapons with it like his wristblades, naginata, etc... But then you're talking about constructing a story to better balance this scenario out here. Another way is, that if he's been observing Daffy for some time... and say Daffy comes across an open oil drum of The Dip, and reacts cautiously around it-- this might let Dachande know that there's a liquid out there that can harm Toons tremendously, and might add this to his arsenal. I mean we've seen Predators in the past use weapons made from the environment around them, or weapons claimed from their prey.

But again, we're talking about constructing a story to fit this scenario here to better balance it.

9 minutes ago, IKA said:

I personally believe toon force characters are usually over hyped and aren't as unkillable as made out to be. But that's all up for debate.

I don't know, man... Seeing what the Looney Tunes characters do because of their nature is pretty evident that unless they're fighting another Looney Tunes character, or a Disney (Steamboat Willie era) character, then for the most part.... Not many other characters can beat them.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Broken Tusk Predator: 3
Daffy Duck: 14