13:11 - Deadpool vs. Leonardo (1987)

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 13, ROUND 11

Deadpool

Slot: The Team's Hunter
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Deadpool at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Leonardo (1987)

Slot: The Team's Anthropromophic Animal
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Leonardo (1987) at this Wiki
Official Site: Nickelodeon

Battle Terrain
Hunter vs. Hunted: Forrest

[Culwych1]

I think Leonardo might win initially, but then Deadpool's healing kicks in and its over for the turtle. DP is just too tenacious. 

[RakaiThwei]

15 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

I think Leonardo might win initially, but then Deadpool's healing kicks in and its over for the turtle. DP is just too tenacious. 

It's not a fight to the death, Leonardo has to CHASE Deadpool out of the forest.

But Leonardo is definitely the strategist of the Turtles across all of the mediums of TMNT. If anything, he and his brothers have lured out a fourth wall breaking reality warping imp from Dimension Z named Mr. Oog out from the sewers and back into Dimension Z by using Mr. Oog's appetite for porcelain vases against him. The moment Leonardo finds out about Deadpool's appetite for Chimichangas, or his rather... amorous lust for Bea Arthur, Leonardo can definitely set something up to get Deadpool out of the forest.

I say Leonardo has this.

EDIT: Also to contrary to popular belief... even the 1987 TMNT DO use their weapons... In the FIRST episode, Turtle Tracks, Raphael and Leonardo were the first two Turtles to attempt to land LETHAL strikes with their weapons BEFORE they knew their enemies were robots.

https://youtu.be/9b404c4KC6g?feature=shared&t=1056

I figure, if Leonardo finds out about Deadpool's healing... He might not have to hold back. Plus, he might not have to kill Deadpool (not that he can as that's impossible), he can always incapacitate him by rodeo tying him with his grappling hook rope, and most of the Turtles are equipped with that.

[DSkillz]

It's kinda hilarious that a lot of these hunter vs. prey match-ups are potentially MA fights.   

But yeah, this match-up has a lot of comedic potential as well. Wade's inane, often fourth-wall breaking rants can get hilarious, especially when contrasted against Leonardo's more-serious demeanor.

Leo may not get far fighting Deadpool, but Wade's loopy and pretty distractible, so Leo might possibly figure out a way to divert him away from the forest. 

 

[C.T.]

Deadpool would probably actually be a big fan of Leo's, with his fourth wall breaking and how they both rock the dual wield katanas style. If anything, I think he'd stick around even more once he finds out he's up against Leonardo. Wade's got it

[RakaiThwei]

8 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Deadpool would probably actually be a big fan of Leo's, with his fourth wall breaking and how they both rock the dual wield katanas style. If anything, I think he'd stick around even more once he finds out he's up against Leonardo. Wade's got it

I dunno. I mean even Wade is a fan of other characters from other franchises, like Street Fighter, as evidenced in Marvel vs Capcom 3 and it's updated version, Ultimate MvC3, and he gets to fighting them pretty quickly.

"Hey, I freakin' love Street Fighter! Autograph your spleen for me?" - Wade, to Ryu, Chun-Li and Akuma.

If anything, I really see this as being something of the same. And also let's not forget, the 1987 TMNT are also known to pretty much break the fourth wall. Although it should be noted that it's usually Michelangelo and Raphael in the 1987 TV series, and Turtles Forever which do that. So if anything, that's something which 1987 Leonardo should be quite used to although he might find Deadpool to be... uncouth.

Leonardo does have experience with fourth wall breaking opponents, such as Mr. Ogg.

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ogg

I would think that Leonardo's experience with someone who does break the fourth wall, and even having two brothers who are prone to do it, is something which he might be able to play to his advantage.

[Pizzaguy2995]

I always like your TMNT arguments @RakaiThwei, and when it comes to Fantasy Draft I always try to vote for the best arguments regardless of how I personally feel would win the match. Well done.

[Culwych1]

I dunno (although it's a bit late in the day now). This is Deadpool - the guy known for going up against some of the top Marvel hitters and coming out on top.

Yes, he has his swords, but he goes into fights packing an arsenal of weaponry and explosives. He's adept at setting traps targeted at his foes, and has the might of Marvel tech with him. 

He's done everything Leo has done (impressive bullet-time sword feats, fighting 100s of ninjas etc) and then some, plus doesn't have to worry about a single cut or gunshot from his opponent like Leo does. 

[RakaiThwei]

54 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

I dunno (although it's a bit late in the day now). This is Deadpool - the guy known for going up against some of the top Marvel hitters and coming out on top.

And so have the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. They constantly fight well above their strength and capability range, even in the context of the 1987 cartoon. They've fought against interdimensional overlords, reality warpers, literal video game end bosses, telekinetics and telepaths, technomancers, beings made of energy...

54 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Yes, he has his swords, but he goes into fights packing an arsenal of weaponry and explosives. He's adept at setting traps targeted at his foes, and has the might of Marvel tech with him. 

And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles do that as well, with just their standard ninja equipment. They also have great improvisation skills... this part largely bring Leonardo's contributions to the team. His strategic aptitude is the big reason why he's the leader of the team. Even in the 1987 cartoon.

54 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

He's done everything Leo has done (impressive bullet-time sword feats, fighting 100s of ninjas etc) and then some, plus doesn't have to worry about a single cut or gunshot from his opponent like Leo does. 

A healing factor doesn't mean an automatic win. 

Leonardo doesn't have to kill Deadpool, and this version of Leonardo is not a killer like the Mirage version. This Leonardo is one of the more heroic ones.

He can incapacitate Deadpool by hog tying him. I mean it's not like Deadpool is Family Guy's Greased Up Deaf Guy and is nigh impossible to catch off guard.

He will find a way to get Deadpool out of the forest, which is what this match is. If he did it with Mr. Ogg, a reality warping Imp, he can do it with Wade.

[Culwych1]

43 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

And so have the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. They constantly fight well above their strength and capability range, even in the context of the 1987 cartoon. They've fought against interdimensional overlords, reality warpers, literal video game end bosses, telekinetics and telepaths, technomancers, beings made of energy...

And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles do that as well, with just their standard ninja equipment. They also have great improvisation skills... this part largely bring Leonardo's contributions to the team. His strategic aptitude is the big reason why he's the leader of the team. Even in the 1987 cartoon.

A healing factor doesn't mean an automatic win. 

Leonardo doesn't have to kill Deadpool, and this version of Leonardo is not a killer like the Mirage version. This Leonardo is one of the more heroic ones.

He can incapacitate Deadpool by hog tying him. I mean it's not like Deadpool is Family Guy's Greased Up Deaf Guy and is nigh impossible to catch off guard.

He will find a way to get Deadpool out of the forest, which is what this match is. If he did it with Mr. Ogg, a reality warping Imp, he can do it with Wade.

I'm in agreement that they both regularly take on opponents greater than themselves (although I'd argue that Deadpool holding his own against Iron Fist, Cap, Hercules, Goliath and Falcon at the same time, as well as going up against some even bigger heavy hitters might put him ahead of some of those beings). 

Even if the argument is that they are equally skilled and experiences in terms of the abilities, equipment, and enemies; you then add healing factor and better arsenal in Deadpool's favour. 

I also think Leonardo not being a killer works against him - Deadpool most definitely is. He'll happily use his own blood to blind his opponents, or let himselve get captured in order to plant explosives on someone. 

Ultimately, my argument I think is that he can do everything Leo can, plus has a bit more of an edge in healing, weapons, and a killer instinct. 

[RakaiThwei]

4 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

I'm in agreement that they both regularly take on opponents greater than themselves (although I'd argue that Deadpool holding his own against Iron Fist, Cap, Hercules, Goliath and Falcon at the same time, as well as going up against some even bigger heavy hitters might put him ahead of some of those beings).

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles also fight people who are more experienced and arguably more skilled then they are as well. Even in the context of the 1987 series which has a reputation of being lighthearted and goofy, someone like their version of Shredder is still more experienced and equal to Master Splinter (as he is across 85% to 90% of the TMNT Multiverse) and many writers in the variety of the TMNT media equate Splinter and Shredder to being around Batman level of experience and skill.

The 1987 Turtles have also encountered 2003's Utrom Shredder, who is arguably the most deadly Shredder in the TMNT Multiverse after he became a known threat to it by attempting to destroy the Multiverse and even had taken Krang's Dimension X technology to upgrade his own exoframe suit and was Kaiju sized.

4 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

Even if the argument is that they are equally skilled and experiences in terms of the abilities, equipment, and enemies; you then add healing factor and better arsenal in Deadpool's favour. 

I also think Leonardo not being a killer works against him - Deadpool most definitely is. He'll happily use his own blood to blind his opponents, or let himselve get captured in order to plant explosives on someone.

The Turtles fight people who are often equipped with long ranged weapons and alien tech. They've also fought government agents who had access to high tech weaponry, such as the Dark Water organization. So they're used to fighting someone who is equipped like Wade Wilson is. This isn't anything too new to them.

And many of the villains they have fought could be arguably labeled as killers as well. Berzerko, Lord Dregg, Mutanimus-- to name a few. Obviously they won't outright explicitly state that on a kids show. And let's not forget Utrom Shredder too.

4 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

Ultimately, my argument I think is that he can do everything Leo can, plus has a bit more of an edge in healing, weapons, and a killer instinct. 

I'd also argue that Wade Wilson is also a far cry from how he was originally written when Rob Liefeld was writing the character. Current Wade Wilson is now a joke character who more or less has become a meme because some writer changed the original character of Wade Wilson who hears voices in his head and quips pop culture references non-stop. Had Wade been kept to how Liefeld written him, he'd be more focused and not so distractable as @DSkillzpointed out.

Better equipment? The Turtles do what he does with their standard equipment and take down enemies better equipped than they are many times and come out on top more often than not.

Also a healing factor doesn't equate to a win. And having a killer instinct doesn't equate to a win either. How many times has Spider-Man, the Friendly Neighborhood Web-Slinger, subdued or incapacitated Wade Wilson? And Spider-Man often goes out of his way not to kill people.

And that meme...  It's convinced me that you really aren't interested in learning about other characters outside of Marvel or DC and are maybe of the mindset that Marvel characters aren't allowed to lose to characters outside of Marvel or DC.

[Culwych1]

45 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles also fight people who are more experienced and arguably more skilled then they are as well. Even in the context of the 1987 series which has a reputation of being lighthearted and goofy, someone like their version of Shredder is still more experienced and equal to Master Splinter (as he is across 85% to 90% of the TMNT Multiverse) and many writers in the variety of the TMNT media equate Splinter and Shredder to being around Batman level of experience and skill.

The 1987 Turtles have also encountered 2003's Utrom Shredder, who is arguably the most deadly Shredder in the TMNT Multiverse after he became a known threat to it by attempting to destroy the Multiverse and even had taken Krang's Dimension X technology to upgrade his own exoframe suit and was Kaiju sized.

The Turtles fight people who are often equipped with long ranged weapons and alien tech. They've also fought government agents who had access to high tech weaponry, such as the Dark Water organization. So they're used to fighting someone who is equipped like Wade Wilson is. This isn't anything too new to them.

And many of the villains they have fought could be arguably labeled as killers as well. Berzerko, Lord Dregg, Mutanimus-- to name a few. Obviously they won't outright explicitly state that on a kids show. And let's not forget Utrom Shredder too.

I'd also argue that Wade Wilson is also a far cry from how he was originally written when Rob Liefeld was writing the character. Current Wade Wilson is now a joke character who more or less has become a meme because some writer changed the original character of Wade Wilson who hears voices in his head and quips pop culture references non-stop. Had Wade been kept to how Liefeld written him, he'd be more focused and not so distractable as @DSkillzpointed out.

Better equipment? The Turtles do what he does with their standard equipment and take down enemies better equipped than they are many times and come out on top more often than not.

Also a healing factor doesn't equate to a win. And having a killer instinct doesn't equate to a win either. How many times has Spider-Man, the Friendly Neighborhood Web-Slinger, subdued or incapacitated Wade Wilson? And Spider-Man often goes out of his way not to kill people.

You make some good points; both characters have fought opponents who are stronger, potentially better equipped etc. And I'm not saying a healing factor, or a killer instinct, or his equipment, or his skills etc. in isolation would equate to a win - but I do think that at a baseline he is comparable to Leo, but add all of those together and I see him having an advantage. I haven't even mentioned that we do have a case here of a character who works best as a team vs a character who works best alone. 

48 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

And that meme...  It's convinced me that you really aren't interested in learning about other characters outside of Marvel or DC and are maybe of the mindset that Marvel characters aren't allowed to lose to characters outside of Marvel or DC.

 

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Deadpool: 4
Leonardo (1987): 6

[RakaiThwei]

3 hours ago, Culwych1 said:

You make some good points; both characters have fought opponents who are stronger, potentially better equipped etc. And I'm not saying a healing factor, or a killer instinct, or his equipment, or his skills etc. in isolation would equate to a win - but I do think that at a baseline he is comparable to Leo, but add all of those together and I see him having an advantage. I haven't even mentioned that we do have a case here of a character who works best as a team vs a character who works best alone.

If we're going to talk about between which character functions better individually, that's another whole debate in of itself but just because the TMNT function exceptionally well as a team doesn't meant that they aren't capable of fighting and winning battles on their own. Of course, some versions are better than others in different areas.

3 hours ago, UMPIRE said:

Match Final Results

Deadpool: 4
Leonardo (1987): 6

The... Marvel character lost to a TMNT character? A POPULAR Marvel character lost to a TMNT character?!

IMPOSSIBLE! It can't be! Marvels aren't supposed to lose but... It's there! A stepping stone in my goal has been made!

You've given me hope, CBUBers! If Leonardo could give a speech, it might be something like this!

 

[C.T.]

[DSkillz]

I'd still say Leo distracted DP out of the woods.   

[RakaiThwei]

2 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

I'd still say Leo distracted DP out of the woods.   

I say he distracted him out of the woods and hog tied him!