13:17 - Red Hood vs. Captain America

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 13, ROUND 17

Red Hood

Slot: The Team's Athlete
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Red Hood at Wikipedia
Official Site: DC Comics

Captain America

Slot: The Team's Athlete
Season Wins: 2
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Captain America at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel

Battle Terrain
Team Athlete Challenge: Deadman Wonderland

[Peypeypeypey]

This would physically be very close, with Cap being peak human, but I think Red Hood's training and killer instinct gives him a leg up. He has favorable fights against Deathstroke who is very similar to Cap physically and skill wise, and has stood his ground against all the Bat Family in the past 

[DSkillz]

Can Cap navigate and endure a dangerous gauntlet of traps and enemies? 

As I mentioned the last time he went through this terrain, he once fought through a gauntlet of bad guys while in disguise (taking out quite a few of them along the way), then ended up being specifically targeting before he eased past the rest to escape.  

He also held his own against the Wrecker (who's much more powerful than him) and without his shield. 

He can also take a beating and keep going. 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

To reiterate, this would be a good fight. Red Hood was able to beat Cassandra Cain in a fair fight, who is widely considered to be one of the best fighters in DC, and has fought evenly with Deathstroke, who is probably DC's closest analog to the Super Soldier Captain America. He is peak human physically and incredibly skilled, but what gets him this win is his ruthlessness and willingness to kill (in certain parts of the continuity anyway). Those factors fit much better with this scenario

[DSkillz]

Okay, it's past time to dive into this: 

On 2/1/2024 at 12:47 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

Red Hood was able to beat Cassandra Cain in a fair fight, who is widely considered to be one of the best fighters in DC,

Actually, Cassandra was holding back in the fight and was trying to protect him. This was acknowledged further a few pages later. 

On 2/1/2024 at 12:47 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

and has fought evenly with Deathstroke, who is probably DC's closest analog to the Super Soldier Captain America.

Deathstroke was ... pretty hindered in that fight. To add to it, he had also fought through a dozen Bizarro clones prior to that. 

Neither is exactly a ringing endorsement for Red Hood's full skill. 

Meanwhile, Cap has not only proven to be stronger and faster than an unjuiced Jason, but the SSS in his system also grants him a healing factor and virtually limitless stamina.  

Case in point: he's fought Wolverine a couple of times, and Logan's said to know every fighting style. The only real advantage Wolvie's had almost each time was his superior healing. 

On 2/1/2024 at 12:47 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

He is peak human physically and incredibly skilled, but what gets him this win is his ruthlessness and willingness to kill (in certain parts of the continuity anyway). Those factors fit much better with this scenario

Cap isn't afraid to kill, either. He did fight in WW II, after all. He's killed various Nazis, Hydra members and other villains in both the war and the modern day. 

Besides, Deadman Wonderland isn't just about fighting. There are also various obstacle courses to go through, and Steve's superior physiology should give him the edge. 

[Twogunkid]

3 hours ago, DSkillz said:

Okay, it's past time to dive into this: 

Actually, Cassandra was holding back in the fight and was trying to protect him. This was acknowledged further a few pages later. 

Deathstroke was ... pretty hindered in that fight. To add to it, he had also fought through a dozen Bizarro clones prior to that. 

Neither is exactly a ringing endorsement for Red Hood's full skill. 

Meanwhile, Cap has not only proven to be stronger and faster than an unjuiced Jason, but the SSS in his system also grants him a healing factor and virtually limitless stamina.  

Case in point: he's fought Wolverine a couple of times, and Logan's said to know every fighting style. The only real advantage Wolvie's had almost each time was his superior healing. 

Cap isn't afraid to kill, either. He did fight in WW II, after all. He's killed various Nazis, Hydra members and other villains in both the war and the modern day. 

Besides, Deadman Wonderland isn't just about fighting. There are also various obstacle courses to go through, and Steve's superior physiology should give him the edge. 

Adding to this, Cap may not like killing, but even further back in some heavier comics code eras he did it. The Baron Blood fight is one of my favorite issues of classic Cap, and that ends with him decapitating the Nazi vampire.

[Pizzaguy2995]

@DSkillz and @Peypeypeypey

Uh guys you know that Cap and Jason aren’t fighting in this scenario right? From what I understand the scenario is about who can escape from Deadman Wonderland first, so maybe y’all should be debating which one is faster or better at avoiding deadly traps?

[Twogunkid]

8 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

@DSkillz and @Peypeypeypey

Uh guys you know that Cap and Jason aren’t fighting in this scenario right? From what I understand the scenario is about who can escape from Deadman Wonderland first, so maybe y’all should be debating which one is faster or better at avoiding deadly traps?

Oh I know, they brought up the willingness to kill and I just love that Union Jack Baron Blood arc from way back when.

[Culwych1]

I've been torn between these two as Hood does one key advantage (which may have been mentioned) which is his equipment. He has lasers, flywing built into his armour and more - which I don't know if the contestants are not allowed to use. Cap has his shield, which sure - is amazing - but less versatile in my opinion than the range of options Todd is bringing to this competition. But that said.... Cap is a beast! Superhuman in all but name. 

I realise I am out of time to vote probably... but what a great match up. 

[DSkillz]

1 hour ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

@DSkillz and @Peypeypeypey

Uh guys you know that Cap and Jason aren’t fighting in this scenario right? From what I understand the scenario is about who can escape from Deadman Wonderland first, so maybe y’all should be debating which one is faster or better at avoiding deadly traps?

I actually pointed that out at the end of my last post. 

But yeah, Cap is no slouch at getting out of tough spots: 

- Cap can get his Indiana Jones on. 

- He can also get out of adapting Skrull bonds. 

- He can even pull a Batman on soldiers targeting him. 

Also, he can get around pretty well -- and without all the grappling hooks, glider wings, etc. that the Bat family uses.

[Peypeypeypey]

The Bat-Family, and especially the Robins, are known for their acrobatics, stealth, and overall physical and mental prowess. I'm at work so I can't post scans, but Red Hood has trained with the best of the best in many physical areas, and I would bet is better in agility and gymnastics than Cap. Cap is no slouch, but this is what the Bat Family is specifically trained in

[DSkillz]

5 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

but Red Hood has trained with the best of the best in many physical areas, and I would bet is better in agility and gymnastics than Cap.

Heh, I wouldn't bet on it. Cap not only has peak human strength, but also peak human speed and agility. Not even Batman can lay claim to those abilities. 

[Peypeypeypey]

18 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

Heh, I wouldn't bet on it. Cap not only has peak human strength, but also peak human speed and agility. Not even Batman can lay claim to those abilities. 

Of course Batman can claim to be peak human in speed and agility. He's famously agile. I'm honestly not sure why you would think he isn't peak human in those areas. If anything, I would bet Batman is faster and more agile than he is strong.

[DSkillz]

6 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Of course Batman can claim to be peak human in speed and agility. He's famously agile. I'm honestly not sure why you would think he isn't peak human in those areas. If anything, I would bet Batman is faster and more agile than he is strong.

General consensus has always been that Cap is physically superior to Batman, and that has generally been proven out. 

- For example, Batman has never been able to run at 60 mph, like Cap. 

- Bats has never been thrown off a speeding train, then caught up to on foot like Cap has.  

Given that Cap's generally considered physically superior, then Bats can't quite be considered peak human, right? 

Besides, you still have yet to show how agile Jason himself is, though the point may be moot this late into the round. 

[Peypeypeypey]

7 hours ago, DSkillz said:

General consensus has always been that Cap is physically superior to Batman, and that has generally been proven out. 

- For example, Batman has never been able to run at 60 mph, like Cap. 

- Bats has never been thrown off a speeding train, then caught up to on foot like Cap has.  

Given that Cap's generally considered physically superior, then Bats can't quite be considered peak human, right? 

Besides, you still have yet to show how agile Jason himself is, though the point may be moot this late into the round. 

While it's true that Cap is generally considered superior physically, that doesn't mean Bats isn't peak human. Both Cap and Bats can do things that are objectively above what any peak human can do in real life, so I would call them both "peak human." I mean, running 60 MPH is twice as fast as Usain Bolt, the fastest man. It's an objectively super human feat by any real measure, and Batman has similarly superhuman feats. 

But yeah, I got off work late last night and figured most everyone had already voted so I would just leave it as is

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Red Hood: 2
Captain America: 6