13:18 - Mister Fantastic vs. Kang the Conqueror

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 13, ROUND 18

Mister Fantastic

Slot: The Team's Scientist
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Mister Fantastic at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel

Kang the Conqueror

Slot: The Team's Scientist
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 2
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Kang the Conqueror at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Team Scientist Challenge: Invention Swap

[Culwych1]

Kang's inventions are thousands of years ahead of Reeds. This is the equivalent of a modern day scientist looking at a medieval witch doctor's drawings and vice versa.

Ok maybe not quite because Reed is a smart guy, but ultimately Kang is going to be looking at things he probably learned already in school, whilst Reed is going to have to spend time and have an uphill battle deciphering Kangs futuristic inventions.

[DSkillz]

Fun fact: at least one version of Kang is actually a descendant of Reed himself. 

Reed has faced off against Kang multiple times before and bested him. Part of Reed's schtick with his intelligence is his ability to reverse-engineer and/or counter his enemies' tech, weapons, etc., so he should have this. 

[Culwych1]

5 hours ago, DSkillz said:

Fun fact: at least one version of Kang is actually a descendant of Reed himself. 

Reed has faced off against Kang multiple times before and bested him. Part of Reed's schtick with his intelligence is his ability to reverse-engineer and/or counter his enemies' tech, weapons, etc., so he should have this. 

Kang has posed a threat to the combined might of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four, so I'd say Reed needed help.

Actually, the ability to adopt tech (from any time or place) is Kangs deal. He has literally done this continously to become the greatest conqueror across various timelines. He even ends up adopting tech He himself has created in other timelines. 

And as mentioned, this is future tech vs past tech - it's unlikely Reed will have anything Kang needs to "reverse engineer" - as being from the distant future, Kang will already know how to make it.

[DSkillz]

On 2/4/2024 at 1:47 AM, Culwych1 said:

Kang has posed a threat to the combined might of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four, so I'd say Reed needed help.

Actually, the ability to adopt tech (from any time or place) is Kangs deal. He has literally done this continously to become the greatest conqueror across various timelines. He even ends up adopting tech He himself has created in other timelines. 

And as mentioned, this is future tech vs past tech - it's unlikely Reed will have anything Kang needs to "reverse engineer" - as being from the distant future, Kang will already know how to make it.

Kang was never considered as intelligent as Reed, though. In fact, their individual Marvel power rankings indicate that Reed is indeed smarter: 

Here's Kang's power rankings, and here's Reed's. 

While Kang would already have blueprints of Reed's inventions, he'll never have the smarts to created them from scratch as well as Reed. Meanwhile, given that a lot of Kang's tech will be futurized versions of what Reed's already created, it wouldn't take him took to decipher how it works and recreate it. 

[Culwych1]

28 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

Kang was never considered as intelligent as Reed, though. In fact, their individual Marvel power rankings indicate that Reed is indeed smarter: 

Here's Kang's power rankings, and here's Reed's. 

While Kang would already have blueprints of Reed's inventions, he'll never have the smarts to created them from scratch as well as Reed. Meanwhile, given that a lot of Kang's tech will be futurized versions of what Reed's already created, it wouldn't take him took to decipher how it works and recreate it. 

I'm actually in agreement in that Reed is smarter than Kang. But again point out that that is like a smart medieval scientist competing against a smart modern day scientist. Whilst there might be some of Reeds tech in Kang's, there is also thousands of years of discoveries and inventions that Reed is not aware of. There are likely computers millions of times more advanced that input into the calculations that feed Kangs tech.

In terms of reverse engineering, Kang just has too many advantages 

[DSkillz]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:29 AM, Culwych1 said:

I'm actually in agreement in that Reed is smarter than Kang. But again point out that that is like a smart medieval scientist competing against a smart modern day scientist. Whilst there might be some of Reeds tech in Kang's, there is also thousands of years of discoveries and inventions that Reed is not aware of. There are likely computers millions of times more advanced that input into the calculations that feed Kangs tech.

In terms of reverse engineering, Kang just has too many advantages 

You're seriously understating Reed if you're saying his smarts and developments are medieval compared to almost any era. His ability to invent things and counter enemies' tech on the fly are a huge part of the Fantastic Four's success, and a lot of his inventions were still cutting-edge generations after he made them. I doubt that tech in Kang's time is so far advanced that Reed couldn't develop it quickly, especially since Reed himself has been to future eras and many extraterrestrial civilizations and seen tech similarly advanced to Kang's. 

If Reed can regularly outdo the likes of Doctor Doom (whom he has dealt with in the past, present, future, and other dimensions), he'll surely be able outpace Kang's at reverse engineering. 

[Culwych1]

32 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

You're seriously understating Reed if you're saying his smarts and developments are medieval compared to almost any era. His ability to invent things and counter enemies' tech on the fly are a huge part of the Fantastic Four's success, and a lot of his inventions were still cutting-edge generations after he made them. I doubt that tech in Kang's time is so far advanced that Reed couldn't develop it quickly, especially since Reed himself has been to future eras and many extraterrestrial civilizations and seen tech similarly advanced to Kang's. 

If Reed can regularly outdo the likes of Doctor Doom (whom he has dealt with in the past, present, future, and other dimensions), he'll surely be able outpace Kang's at reverse engineering. 

OK, I may have exaggerated the extent, but the principle still stands. Reed will need to reverse engineer; Kang will already know the tech.

[Culwych1]

37 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

You're seriously understating Reed if you're saying his smarts and developments are medieval compared to almost any era. His ability to invent things and counter enemies' tech on the fly are a huge part of the Fantastic Four's success, and a lot of his inventions were still cutting-edge generations after he made them. I doubt that tech in Kang's time is so far advanced that Reed couldn't develop it quickly, especially since Reed himself has been to future eras and many extraterrestrial civilizations and seen tech similarly advanced to Kang's. 

If Reed can regularly outdo the likes of Doctor Doom (whom he has dealt with in the past, present, future, and other dimensions), he'll surely be able outpace Kang's at reverse engineering. 

And it's funny you mention Doom - who is at least comparable to Reed, and who envies Kangs tech

[DSkillz]

12 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

And it's funny you mention Doom - who is at least comparable to Reed, and who envies Kangs tech

Funny thing is that Doom ended up defeating Kang in the original Secret Wars storyline. In fact, it took two Kang variants to take Doom down the last time they faced off. 

[Culwych1]

1 hour ago, DSkillz said:

Funny thing is that Doom ended up defeating Kang in the original Secret Wars storyline. In fact, it took two Kang variants to take Doom down the last time they faced off. 

I'm not disputing Doom is more powerful than Kang but noting Kang's thing is that he brings more than just himself to a fight (e.g., armies, variants, etc). 

However he does envy Kangs tech, which in this challenge is key.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Mister Fantastic: 4
Kang the Conqueror: 7